[x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy

Thu Oct 20 16:41:24 PDT 2022

➢ In SignWriting, a combination of iconic symbols for handshapes, orientation, body locations, facial expressions, contacts, and movement[9][10] are used to represent words in sign language. 

➢ we create a mapping between X3D/BVH, DanceWriting/MovementWriting

This would need a ‘standard’ skeleton, some ‘standard’ skin, and sets of ‘standard’ poses to show each information item. This is possible, for instance using a ’standard’ hanim hand starting with its position in the ‘standard’ pose and encoding the translation of the hand and the rotation of each joint needed to show the detail. Of course this could be used to encode poses for the complete character. A hard part is managing the transition as the pose changes for the next item. Since there is already a list of poses, then it only remains to draft a list ‘standard’ skeleton poses for each item. The facial animation is very important in this and maybe hanim working group is doing some work in this.

 Thanks,
Joe

From: John Carlson
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 12:38 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Cc: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU; X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org); X3D Semantic Web Working Group; h-anim at web3d.org
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda,20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy

I suggest we create a mapping between X3D/BVH, DanceWriting/MovementWriting and especially SignWriting, with DanceWriting/MovementWriting and SignWriting carrying the semantics, and X3D/BVH carrying the physics/mathematics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SignWriting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Movement_Writing_Alphabet

I believe there are current developments on this, as  reported on SW-L.

I believe that this, and translation to and/or supplementing with Protactile for the deafblind will go a long way towards making the Metaverse more accessible.

Note that Protactile is a full-duplex, two-way language, so that full-duplex communication is critical to success.

Plain ol’ video generation isn’t going to solve this!

John 

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 1:21 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
Hi John.  Good ideas, thanks for sharing them.

Once again, it appears as if all the capabilities necessary to accomplish that are defined in X3D4 with immense sets of BVH captures available out there.  Good hunting, sir.

• X3D4 Architecture, 26.3.4 HAnimMotion
• https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion

• HAnim 2.0 Part 2:  Humanoid animation (HAnim) motion data animation, 4 Concepts
• https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-2/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/Concepts.html

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 10:46 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; h-anim at web3d.org
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy

Hmm.  I suggest extending the BVH to include multifigure collaborative motions like dancing (think Virginia Reel) and sports.  That is, some kind of composed BVH with multiple avatars.

This may already be done.

Thanks!

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
X3D Working Group meets weekly for continued advancement of the X3D4 Specifications.

•        Meeting time 09-1000 pacific, each Friday
•        https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09 
•        https://zoom.us/j/148206572  Password 483805 
•        https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information

Here is a “new” proposed strategy, trying to say crisply the many essential ideas that are well known already by active participants in the X3D community.

(draft) Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure

No standardized definition for “avatars” is provided in X3D4, but…

•        Many alternatives are possible, the “X” in “X3D” is Extensible. Vive la difference!
•        X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.
•        Most powerful Web3D example design to date:  Silhouette Avatars by IVN, https://ivn.net
•        Metadata for identity, secure digital signature and even encryption is possible.
•        Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full avatar realism remains really interesting!  Interesting progress continues on this challenge.

X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions are agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum.  We expect to show full matching Implementation and Evaluation using X3D, learning further what avatar designs work well.

Let’s discuss please.  All inputs and discussion welcome.

Corresponding Web3D member-only draft slideset available at
• Representing Metaverse Humans with Open Standards
• Humanoid Animation (HAnim) and X3D4 ISO Specification Support
• Web3D Consortium Communications Team
• https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p

Membership has value!
• Join the Web3D Consortium
• The Web3D Consortium is a non-profit group open to industry, academic, government and individual members.
• https://www.web3d.org/join

Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars!  8)

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

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