[x3d-public] An annotations example and project

Mon Oct 10 08:04:18 PDT 2022

X_ITE loads Astronaut.x3d! In color! See attached!

[image: image.png]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 9:29 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Experiences with X3DOM and glb. AFAIK, X_ITE does not load glb. but I
> haven't tried! Next message will be viewx3dscene.
>
> This condition, while in binary mode, does not return true:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Contact your X3DOM developers!
>
> Source HTML attached. You can change to your own .glb, but I use
> astronaut.gib mentioned in first message in this thread.
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:23 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe, .gltf is the ASCII equivalent of .glb, so if conversion from .glb to
>> X3D doesn’t work, try conversion to .gltf, and please, send out results.
>> Otherwise try glTF in Inline nodes.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 7:33 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve
>>>    made since Assembly was created.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> True, I was thinking it may be relatively easy to reuse the
>>> Astronaut.glb in x3d but now looking at it deeper I see that it is not that
>>> easy not only because the blob is some binary form but that the data I want
>>> is mostly trapped in the blob. There aren’t that many triangles and there
>>> is careful use of color but, I don’t yet see how to extract the x3d code
>>> needed for one or more child shapes to compose the figure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still, I think there are examples like this in gltf where the asset is
>>> some data that has been all or partially processed using inputs from
>>> standard x3d fields, and that any gltf asset has a counterport as an x3d
>>> field or the result of computing using x3d fields.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, the alternative for this is
>>>
>>> 1. Just figure how to load the .glb into x3d player and then show how to
>>> build an annotation system in that space or a child space.
>>>
>>> 2. Extract the mesh and materials to x3d user code and get control of
>>> the thing. (I know bufferviews must mean soething, but how to understand
>>> “>õ÷²=Ô”)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can’t see, for now, how to extract the triangles (I can see them in 3D
>>> Builder, but can’t modify or save in a readable format.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 8, 2022 2:35 PM
>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>>> *Cc: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>; X3D-Public
>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not interested in binary formats, but i have used EXI (ASCII)
>>>  converters to and from JSON.   See X3DJSONLD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JSON schemas might be converted with MapForce.  UAYOR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps there’s some interest in STL and PLY formats?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AFAIK, .glTF appears to be different than .x3d, and is likely closer to
>>> .dae.  I am unsure about .glb, i have not approached it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve made
>>> since Assembly was created.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should consider AssemblyScript?  OBJ is preferable to binary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:42 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Vincent and John and All, since John and others have been working on
>>> ways to get x3d transcoded back and forth with json and now typical .glb
>>> (GL Transmission Format Binary file as Standard json) with prescribed names
>>> and data form that either are the same or a bit different than standard x3d
>>> Node names and Field names and X3DField and X3DArrayField data types.
>>> Except of course, those gl asset blobs that represent binary data that
>>> would be computed and almost ready to be executed by an x3d player.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Is that too simple?
>>>
>>> First, does the .glb carry data that would be appropriate to import
>>> directly with maybe name changes or slightly rearranging or completing data
>>> for use in a field of a standard x3d field?
>>>
>>> Second, are there forms of .glb data, especially for animations, blobs
>>> that could be expected to be the same as machine-ready input created by x3d
>>> browser?
>>>
>>> Third, I think not likely but please let me know, are there Standard
>>> .glb data fields that are not used by x3d? Like before the great material
>>> features added in v4?
>>>
>>> Fourth, any other categories?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That is why the Astronaut.glb file could be very interesting to test.
>>> This is an opportunity to start with a successful yet static model with
>>> overlaid authoring interactivity, including some binaries of big data, to
>>> be moved into x3d space, into a more complete authoring environment,
>>> provide some animations and improved, maybe even integral rather than
>>> overlaid, interactive features.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, all we need is that graph that shows matching (direct usability)
>>> between .glb fields and x3d fields. A good AI might construct this table
>>> from schemas. In particular, what basic scenegraph of x3d nodes can receive
>>> this particular Astronaut.glb data directly?
>>>
>>> Well, also for some glb fields, how to complete or otherwise synthesize
>>> x3d syntax from glb data.
>>>
>>> Finally, to be complete, how an x3d player could use some glb
>>> essentially precomputed data to allow the x3d player to provide some
>>> functionality, like animations for an object without performing some
>>> internal computing steps. If we can add some x3d features and deliver it as
>>> .glb …
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So yes, this is reasonable example and thanks for finding it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2022 9:47 AM
>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>; X3D-Public
>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not seeing the error message in viewing the astronaut.glb file,
>>> with Microsoft 3D Viewer at version 7.2107.7012.0, but I do see the error
>>> with 3D Builder
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I haven't examined the internal structure of the astronaut.glb data, but
>>> it doesn't surprise me that it is  single mesh item.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The spirit of this annotation project would be to display the
>>> annotations from an externally loaded json structure without regard to the
>>> detailed structure of the 3D asset itself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vince
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:02 PM, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >            • the underlying asset is a glTF asset
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Astronaut.glb when downloaded, runs windows 3D Builder with a click
>>> and allows simple editing. Shows error ‘one or more items invalidly
>>> defined. Click to repair’ The entire thing is a single ‘item’
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> > x3d-public mailing list
>>>
>>> > x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>
>>> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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