[x3d-public] An annotations example and project

[John Carlson]

Experiences with X3DOM and glb. AFAIK, X_ITE does not load glb. but I
haven't tried! Next message will be viewx3dscene.

This condition, while in binary mode, does not return true:

[image: image.png]

Contact your X3DOM developers!

Source HTML attached. You can change to your own .glb, but I use
astronaut.gib mentioned in first message in this thread.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:23 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe, .gltf is the ASCII equivalent of .glb, so if conversion from .glb to
> X3D doesn’t work, try conversion to .gltf, and please, send out results.
> Otherwise try glTF in Inline nodes.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 7:33 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>    - Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve
>>    made since Assembly was created.
>>
>>
>>
>> True, I was thinking it may be relatively easy to reuse the Astronaut.glb
>> in x3d but now looking at it deeper I see that it is not that easy not only
>> because the blob is some binary form but that the data I want is mostly
>> trapped in the blob. There aren’t that many triangles and there is careful
>> use of color but, I don’t yet see how to extract the x3d code needed for
>> one or more child shapes to compose the figure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still, I think there are examples like this in gltf where the asset is
>> some data that has been all or partially processed using inputs from
>> standard x3d fields, and that any gltf asset has a counterport as an x3d
>> field or the result of computing using x3d fields.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, the alternative for this is
>>
>> 1. Just figure how to load the .glb into x3d player and then show how to
>> build an annotation system in that space or a child space.
>>
>> 2. Extract the mesh and materials to x3d user code and get control of the
>> thing. (I know bufferviews must mean soething, but how to understand
>> “>õ÷²=Ô”)
>>
>>
>>
>> I can’t see, for now, how to extract the triangles (I can see them in 3D
>> Builder, but can’t modify or save in a readable format.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 8, 2022 2:35 PM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Cc: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>; X3D-Public
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not interested in binary formats, but i have used EXI (ASCII)
>>  converters to and from JSON.   See X3DJSONLD.
>>
>>
>>
>> JSON schemas might be converted with MapForce.  UAYOR.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps there’s some interest in STL and PLY formats?
>>
>>
>>
>> AFAIK, .glTF appears to be different than .x3d, and is likely closer to
>> .dae.  I am unsure about .glb, i have not approached it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stepping backwards to binary is like giving up the progress we’ve made
>> since Assembly was created.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps we should consider AssemblyScript?  OBJ is preferable to binary.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:42 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Vincent and John and All, since John and others have been working on ways
>> to get x3d transcoded back and forth with json and now typical .glb (GL
>> Transmission Format Binary file as Standard json) with prescribed names and
>> data form that either are the same or a bit different than standard x3d
>> Node names and Field names and X3DField and X3DArrayField data types.
>> Except of course, those gl asset blobs that represent binary data that
>> would be computed and almost ready to be executed by an x3d player.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Is that too simple?
>>
>> First, does the .glb carry data that would be appropriate to import
>> directly with maybe name changes or slightly rearranging or completing data
>> for use in a field of a standard x3d field?
>>
>> Second, are there forms of .glb data, especially for animations, blobs
>> that could be expected to be the same as machine-ready input created by x3d
>> browser?
>>
>> Third, I think not likely but please let me know, are there Standard .glb
>> data fields that are not used by x3d? Like before the great material
>> features added in v4?
>>
>> Fourth, any other categories?
>>
>>
>>
>> That is why the Astronaut.glb file could be very interesting to test.
>> This is an opportunity to start with a successful yet static model with
>> overlaid authoring interactivity, including some binaries of big data, to
>> be moved into x3d space, into a more complete authoring environment,
>> provide some animations and improved, maybe even integral rather than
>> overlaid, interactive features.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, all we need is that graph that shows matching (direct usability)
>> between .glb fields and x3d fields. A good AI might construct this table
>> from schemas. In particular, what basic scenegraph of x3d nodes can receive
>> this particular Astronaut.glb data directly?
>>
>> Well, also for some glb fields, how to complete or otherwise synthesize
>> x3d syntax from glb data.
>>
>> Finally, to be complete, how an x3d player could use some glb essentially
>> precomputed data to allow the x3d player to provide some functionality,
>> like animations for an object without performing some internal computing
>> steps. If we can add some x3d features and deliver it as .glb …
>>
>>
>>
>> So yes, this is reasonable example and thanks for finding it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2022 9:47 AM
>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>; X3D-Public
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] An annotations example and project
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not seeing the error message in viewing the astronaut.glb file, with
>> Microsoft 3D Viewer at version 7.2107.7012.0, but I do see the error with
>> 3D Builder
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't examined the internal structure of the astronaut.glb data, but
>> it doesn't surprise me that it is  single mesh item.
>>
>>
>>
>> The spirit of this annotation project would be to display the annotations
>> from an externally loaded json structure without regard to the detailed
>> structure of the 3D asset itself.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vince
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:02 PM, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >            • the underlying asset is a glTF asset
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Astronaut.glb when downloaded, runs windows 3D Builder with a click and
>> allows simple editing. Shows error ‘one or more items invalidly defined.
>> Click to repair’ The entire thing is a single ‘item’
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > x3d-public mailing list
>>
>> > x3d-public at web3d.org
>>
>> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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