[x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
brutzman at nps.edu
Tue Apr 26 08:44:21 PDT 2022
(Sorry, unable to keep up with thread yet.)
Wanted to point out that embedding ExternProtoDeclare within ProtoDeclare
only impacts scoping (visibility) of the ExternProto.
Common design pattern for large scenes is to put all ExternProtoDeclare
statements at top of model, so that ProtoInstances might be used anywhere.
Also avoids repeated loading of such prototypes.
Alternatively for reliability an author might put ExternProtoDeclare within
ProtoDeclare so that it is always available. If embedded, that
ExternProtoDeclare will not be visible outside of the ProtoDeclare. This
might be preferable or undesirable, depending on modeler's re-use plans (or
possibly ProtoDeclare author's design intentions).
Of note is that ProtoBody content model does allow inclusion of
ExternProtoDeclare as valid. See bottom of following diagram to confirm.
* X3D4 XML Schema Documentation, ProtoBody
*
https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSchemaDocumentation4.0/x3d-4.0.html#
Link1C2
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of GPU Group
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 6:09 AM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos
freewrl loads extern proto scenes as whole scene files, but as 'dead'
scenery like a library file: in binary form, ready to binary deep copy parts
to live scenery, but node initialization functions not yet called, and not
rendered. Subsequent # references to the same scene file use the same loaded
library scene. So any ProtoDeclares outside the ProtoBody would be resolved.
-Doug
PS this relates to:
PROTOTYPE STYLE IMPORTS
I had mentioned a prototype style import for gltf use:
Shape { url="library.gltf#shapeName" }
Similar to how we load extern protos as a whole 'dead' scene, and then do
binary deep copies where used in the live scene to make live.
But interestingly, the same goes for x3d scenery - don't need glTF, don't
need extern protos in library scene, don't need Inline or IMPORT.
So the concept could be tested first with x3d scenery.
Shape { url='library.x3dv#shapeName }
And then extended to gltf.
/PROTOTYPE STYLE IMPORTS
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 10:43 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> > wrote:
Actually please look a little more closely at that (admittedly tricky)
example.
* CircleFish is an ExternProto, separately defined in another file
* CircleFishLod is a ProtoDeclare defined in that first file,
CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d
* CircleFishLod ProtoBody contains two ProtoInstance copies of CircleFish
* CircleFishLod ProtoDeclare is then followed by a CircleFishLod
ProtoInstance (again in CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d)
So I would expect an X3D Browser to
a. load ExternProtoDeclare CircleFish
b. build ProtoDeclare CircleFishLod
c. create inner ProtoInstance CircleFish for use
d. create outer ProtoInstance CircleFishLod
Order of steps might vary a bit, but those are the dependencies. Good luck
sir.
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman <http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman>
-----Original Message-----
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org
<mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> > On Behalf Of Andreas Plesch
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 9:08 PM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org
<mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org> >
Subject: [x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos
ProtoDeclarations may use ProtoInstances of other Protos inside their
ProtoBody definitions.
For example, the CircleFishLod proto here:
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fx3dgraphic
s.com
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs.com%2F&d
ata=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C6c462fad73ca4d06524208da26bcf02d%7C6d9362
31a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637864890541977199%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Qj6tv2t7stpf5rWPTZAVZUnSjcpdp8He4VvfI3BFuBg%3D&reserved=0>
%2Fexamples%2FX3dForWebAuthors%2FKelpForestExhibit%2FCircleFishLodProto
typeIndex.html&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40nps.edu%
2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C6c462fad73ca4d06524208da26bcf02d%7C6d
936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637864890541977199%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kBt9%2BaQHsLFNcJS%2BiijsHydG9xoZUaCo4TWxUAvYfgo%3D&rese
rved=0> %7C0b4a867ba9874e371f9b0
8da267152fa%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637864565880708349%
7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi
LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=upr4eckI8axT7MO5fAUvAWfyBzUJfhTwqcp
BuH7tZjc%3D&reserved=0
uses ProtoInstances of the CircleFish proto.
A more extreme case of nesting is:
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PRO
<https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PR
OTO/fivedeepnestingIndex.html>
TO/fivedeepnestingIndex.html
where Proto1 uses ProtoInstance of Proto2 inside its ProtoBody. Proto2
itself uses a ProtoInstance of Proto3 inside its ProtoBody. And so on to
five levels deep.
The second example with the deep nesting currently works with x3dom but the
seemingly simpler CircleFishLod proto does not.
The reason is that x3dom expects the complete definition of a proto to be
contained in its ProtoBody. However, The CircleFishLod proto only contains
the CircleFish ProtoInstances in the body but not the associated CircleFish
ProtoDeclaration which for some reason occurs outside the CircleFishLod
ProtoBody (and outside the CircleFishLod ProtoDeclaration).
Expecting the ProtoBody to be complete and self-contained seems rather
natural. Is x3dom too strict in this regard, or is there an oversight in the
example ? There is not much guidance in the spec., if any.
Thanks, Andreas
--
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453
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