[x3d-public] agenda for HAnim spec meeting, Monday 27 OCT: design plan, HAnimPose, HAnimMotion, other topics
Don Brutzman
don.brutzman at gmail.com
Tue Oct 28 09:20:01 PDT 2025
Thanks Carol, yes it is a possible technique of interest.
I think composition or exclusion of skin (and segment geometry) under a
clothing mesh might vary quite a bit, even more than in the real world. We
should figure out requirements for common use cases and author/designer
expectations:
- author can control visibility of different layers,
- partial or full transparency of outer clothing is a run-time option,
meaning that both might be rendered,
- non-visible layers do not have to be rendering (but defining whether
something is "visible" or obscured can be tricky)
Happily we don't have to worry very much about too-large meshes, there is
relentless progress in that area (both hardware and software). We can
design first for success, then tighten if needed or offer more options
later.
- "premature optimization is the root of all evil" - Donald Knuth
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization
As an example of such emerging (and very capable) mesh-distillation
capabilities:
- The Best-in-Class Tools for Your 3D Processing Jobs
RapidPipeline lets you convert, optimize and prepare your 3D models,
easily.
- https://rapidpipeline.com
p.s. Carol, we have a shared google-drive location for your continuing
specification-change proposals. Given the volume of potential prose
improvements, I can add comments in your document when suggested
modifications are applied to the draft specification. From the existing
HAnim 2.1 draft, please use the listed directory for proposed changes:
- HAnim architecture v2.1 draft
- https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19774/
- Under discussion: proposed changes for HAnim 2.1
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cPZ57p7Ml9yhdKLNZMmuRgq30eWBypXA>
Onward we go. Have fun with
HAnim! 🎩👒👕👖👗👚👛👝👞👟👠👢🥼🧍🚶💇🧘🤸🤾⛹️🚴🏌️⛷️🏂🪂🏄
all the best, Don
--
X3D Graphics, Maritime Robotics, Distributed Simulation
Relative Motion Consulting https://RelativeMotion.info
On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 5:01 AM Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net> wrote:
> In Monday's meeting, it was mentioned that for coveriods, a cage (or
> lighter mesh) is put around the body for clothing and the body mesh
> removed. One of the reasons is that body meshes can be very dense and
> larger files.
>
> Carol
>
> On 10/27/2025 12:55 PM PDT Don Brutzman <don.brutzman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello everyone, lots of great progress to discuss in our upcoming weekly
> meeting today, quickly reviewing details on mailing lists.
>
> Most topics are ongoing can be covered briefly and quickly, and so have
> added suggested timings listed for each.
>
> 1. (10 minutes) *HAnim and Clothing*. Dick and I have proposed a
> section on suggested design improvements for HAnim to support coveroid and
> wearables.
>
> - HAnim Architecture draft v2.1, 4.2.2 Humanoid coordinate system
> - ISO/IEC 19774-1:202x V2.1 — 4 Concepts
> <https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19774/ISO-IEC19774-1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1-WD/Architecture/concepts.html#HumanoidCoordinateSystem>
>
> Editors note: Need to describe overall design for Humanoid to have
> multiple layers. Start with skeleton, work up to internal organs and
> musculature, then skin, then coveroid layers... Requirements include:
>
> - It must be possible to independently select which layers are active
> in the current model.
>
>
> - Layers must be rendered in the correct order.
>
>
> - If a particular layer has no geometry, it is not active
>
>
> - What are requirements for definition of attachment points between
> layers?
>
>
> - Can Site object be applied consistently in context of each of the
> layers?
>
>
> - More?
>
>
> 2. (10 minutes) *HAnimPose* looks solid: fully working prototype,
> implemented in X_ITE, draft specification prose, Mantis
>
> - X3D Example Archives: Humanoid Animation, Poses, HAnim Pose Prototype
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Poses/HAnimPosePrototypeIndex.html
>
>
> - HAnim Architecture draft v2.1, clause 6 Object interfaces, 6.4 Pose
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19774/ISO-IEC19774-1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1-WD/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Pose
> - X3D Architecture draft 4.1, clause 25 Humanoid animation, 26.3.5
> HAnimPose
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion
>
>
> - Mantis 1504: Consider Pose node (aka HAnimPose in X3D) to support
> inclusion of I, A, T, H, other poses within Humanoid
> - https://mantis.web3d.org/view.php?id=1504
>
> Any concerns about including the proposed HAnimPose node in draft
> specifications HAnim v2.1 and X3D v4.1?
>
> The above example also demonstrates that X_ITE has added USE
> nopde-referencing capability. This refinement allows us to share and
> EXPORT existing humans, then IMPORT/AS/USE them. Big savings in file
> size, big benefit to make us ensure our shared models are excellent.
>
> - X3D Architecture draft 4.1, clause 4 Concepts, 4.4.6 EXPORT/IMPORT
> semantics
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/concepts.html#ExportImportSemantics
>
>
> 3. (15 minutes) Lots of excellent progress on *HAnimMotion* with much
> excellent dialog shared on mailing list.
>
> X3D specification example restored:
>
> - X3D Example Archives: Humanoid Animation, Specifications, Korean
> Character Motion Annex D 01 Jin
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Specifications/KoreanCharacterMotionAnnexD01JinIndex.html
>
>
> - Rawkee progress by Aaron: "I successfully implemented HAnimMotion
> node export from Maya using RawKee."
> - You can see a video of the result running in Sunrize
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JBe6kO1UnbsXvfpMKfI-75DhpDdzng-L/view?usp=sharing
> - [x3d-public] Maya/RawKee first HAnimMotion export test
> -
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2025-October/022042.html
>
> Possible specification improvements for
>
> - HAnimMotion joints (jointNames) field, enabled field default TRUE
> - HAnimHumanoid motionsEnabled MFBool array, define semantics of empty
> field as equivalent to all TRUE
> - Mantis 1507: HAnimHumanoid.motionsEnabled field and
> HAnimMotion.enabled field
> - https://mantis.web3d.org/view.php?id=1517
> -
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2025-October/022044.html
>
> Any concerns or objections to these clarity-motivated improvements to
> HAnim and X3D draft specifications?
>
> 4. (5 min) Upcoming briefing in *Metaverse Standards Forum (MSF) Town
> Hall*
>
> Please mark your calendars. Special thanks to Joe Williams for steady
> representation of HAnim in this forum.
>
> - *Characters Town Hall, November 19 @ 15:00 - 17:00 PST*
> - As we are studying the interoperability aspects of Character and
> Avatars delivery systems, it is important to maintain and develop an
> understanding of the evolving Character and Avatars landscape. To collect
> thoughts and discuss the future of Character and Avatars, the 3D Asset
> Interoperability Working Group at Metaverse Standards Forum is organizing
> an open cross-industry Town Hall.
> - Multiple character and avatar approaches will be briefed. Topics
> include
>
>
> - Understanding Character and Avatars production related challenges,
> - Sharing information on the activities of various industry
> organizations
> - Identifying activities that we as an industry can do to enable a
> healthier Character and Avatars ecosystem
> - Overarching character and avatar standards
> - Translation frameworks for characters and avatars
>
> Web3D Communications Team will discuss preparation and messaging for the
> presentation.
>
> 5. (5 min) Myeong Won Lee, any possibility of sharing* Suwon HAnim
> modeling software*? It had an important role in the development of
> HAnimMotion and many examples.
>
> 6. (5 min) *Continuing review efforts* and ondoing discussion:
>
> Carol McDonald has provided proposed changes for HAnim 2.1
> <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cPZ57p7Ml9yhdKLNZMmuRgq30eWBypXA>
> which (for human-body and humanoid definitions) are helping us align with IEEE
> 3D Body Processing (3DBP) standards group
> <https://standards.ieee.org/industry-connections/activities/3d-body-processing>
> and complementary white papers.
>
> Many of these comments have already fit into the main specifications as
> clarifications or better descriptions. Target for Carol's remaining
> comments will likely be the following annex:
>
> - HAnim Architecture draft v2.1, Annex E (informative) Guidelines for
> HAnim model design
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19774/ISO-IEC19774-1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1/ISO-IEC19774-1v2.1-WD/Architecture/Design.html
>
> 7. *Get Involved with HAnim*
>
> The Humanoid Animation (HAnim) working group is a Web3D member-only
> group. The above topics are open, public information.
>
> - Humanoid Animation (HAnim) Working Group
> - The HAnim Working group develops and demonstrates the Humanoid
> Animation (HAnim) International Standard. HAnim supports a wide variety of
> articulated figures, including anatomically correct human models,
> incorporating haptic and kinematic interfaces in order to enable sharable
> skeletons, bodies and animations.
> - https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/hanim
>
> Consortium membership has value! Please check out Member Benefits
> <https://www.web3d.org/membership> and consider joining Web3D.
>
> Renewed activity and progress in HAnim is really exciting. Thanks to
> everyone engaged in this ongoing success story.
>
> Onward we go! Have fun with HAnim and X3D! 🧍👌
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> X3D Graphics, Maritime Robotics, Distributed Simulation
> Relative Motion Consulting https://RelativeMotion.info
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20251028/c825e10f/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the x3d-public
mailing list