RE: [x3d-public] Shaders and Triangles: was dedicated working-group focus on X3D interoperability

["Len Bullard" <cbullard@hiwaay.net>]

I agree about the level of the talk.  Some of us are posting code snippets
as we can and I've found there are an abundance of tutorials on the web for
VRML if not X3D.  I wrote one of the latter a few years ago and it is still
at XML.COM.  There are some small entries at wikipedia.   The W3DC has a
wiki open for all to read, but it isn't well-populated yet.  There just
isn't enough time in the day yet.

The good news is that aside from compression, the code posted is still
inspectable and a lot of protos are available at various web sites.  From
one perspective, protos are to VRML/X3D what CSS + HTA is to XML and HTML.
One can dress up a world quickly with a decent proto library.  More of these
are being released by different sources soon I read, but I don't know
whether they will be free or come bundled with licensed software.

If you see a topic here that you want explained, chime in and ask.  This
list is still the most helpful I've seen for that.  There are also some
different company sponsored lists such as Holger's list for the BS users
where the topics are moderated and mostly concern authoring issues.

Most of us actually aren't spec contributors.  We've just been hanging out
here so long we've gone native.

len


From: Adam Nash [mailto:adam@yamanakanash.net] 

My intention is not to criticise anyone, I just wanted to give my  
perspective as a working artist, in response to Dave and Dick's  
comments about tutorials for content authors.

However, point taken, and I do appreciate the work of all the people  
working on X3D, that's why I stay in touch with the list and live in  
hope that it will be viable for those of us who simply don't  
understand most of what is said on this list.

I don't think content creators should be punished for not being able  
to contribute to the technical development of the spec - I sincerely  
would love to be able to create content for this platform, and have  
done so for many years.

But, if I want to create an audiovisual work in a multiuser space  
using X3D right now, how do I do that?

Adam

On 27/12/2006, at 4:31 PM, Len Bullard wrote:

> And that works for you.  On the other hand, for those who paid your
> commissions and might not understand the risks they are taking, the  
> story
> isn't so good.  On the same hand, they might have to come back to  
> you to
> rehost it and that is a good economy.
>
> You are off the mark on one point: online building tools and MU are  
> only
> important for certain applications or genre of real-time 3D, mainly  
> virtual
> reality because that is where the art is being performed.   The main
> advantage is not the software technology but the server farm:  in  
> music
> terms, the Room.  It has traffic and electron hoses.
>
> If protocols begin to shift back toward peer-to-peer as they  
> certainly will
> for other applications of real-time 3D, then the server farm, or  
> built in
> audience, isn't as important as the portability of the data and the
> interoperability of the systems.  SL gets to surf on the waves  
> created by
> the early pioneers in MU and that's fine.  That's how it should be,  
> but the
> momentum under that is not your art or the art of your peers; you  
> are riding
> the wave of millions in venture capital and if that gasoline burns out
> before someone can add wood to the fire, the server farms go away.   
> Other
> pressures such as the rapid rises in energy costs and potential green
> policies coming from the Federal government are also to be considered.
>
> I am an artist too, one who watched the 'it must be free' ethic  
> collapse the
> market for his art, but that's ok because at the same time, smart  
> artists
> adopt new media and this is one of them as you know.  But I am also  
> someone
> who knows precisely what it does to a customer and the band when a  
> club
> burns down with our equipment inside it.  That is where inhouse hosted
> toolkits are a blessing and a curse unless you have your own PA and  
> a policy
> of taking your axes home at night.  If the club furnishes all of  
> that, que
> bueno.  I only have to tell the customers where our NEXT gig will  
> be.   The
> artists who relied on the club owner exclusively will be serving  
> lattes at
> Starbucks.
>
> I'm happy to see the Mac supported.  IMO, it is a boutique machine for
> boutique buyers and sellers, but that is fine.  Like any other  
> niche, it's
> value is relative to what customers will pay and how often they  
> return to
> buy again.  Otherwise, it's just a platform.  Cool but so is a  
> Peavey PA
> from Mississippi compared to the best from Europe: audiences can't  
> tell the
> difference.
>
> So those of us hewing to the goal of royalty-free open standards  
> for both
> server and client side real time 3D anywhere and not just the web,  
> will be
> the ones responsible for making sure if those rooms do burn, you  
> have a
> place to go.  Just say thank you to the volunteer doorman on your  
> way in,
> and tip the waitresses.  They work hard for the money.
>
> len
>
>
> From: Adam Nash [mailto:adam@yamanakanash.net]
>
> Naturally, there's always the consideration of portability, but I
> don't see SL as any less portable than VRML/X3D. It's all about the
> ideas, so as long as I keep those ideas (and, unless I suffer some
> kind of trauma to the brain, that's not going to be a problem) I can
> easily recreate them in any environment. Most scripting languages are
> pretty similar, so it would be quite easy to to modify the SL scripts
> and assets (I keep copies of all my scripts naturally, the geometry
> is just geometry, the textures and sounds are my own) to the 'next'
> suitable environment.
>
> But the point for me (as you correctly say Len) is what works now. I
> could port all my old stuff from VRML into SL, just as I could port
> the SL stuff into whatever comes next, but I'd rather just move on.
> I've archived/documented what I need to as a professional artist
> (mainly using video dumps).
>
> I can't stress enough, though, my main point which is that artist/
> content creators need two things in realtime net-based 3D: inworld
> tools and multi-user capability. Without those two things the artists
> will not come.
>
> This is illustrated by the other projects I'm currently collaborating
> on, one that uses the Torque engine to create educational worlds,
> another that uses Unreal, and another that uses a feedback cycle
> between Pure Data and Torque. They all have inworld tools and multi-
> user capability. Also, all of these tools run well on Mac.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
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