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Re: [x3d-public] Shaders and Triangles: was dedicated working-group focus on X3D interoperability



Naturally, there's always the consideration of portability, but I don't see SL as any less portable than VRML/X3D. It's all about the ideas, so as long as I keep those ideas (and, unless I suffer some kind of trauma to the brain, that's not going to be a problem) I can easily recreate them in any environment. Most scripting languages are pretty similar, so it would be quite easy to to modify the SL scripts and assets (I keep copies of all my scripts naturally, the geometry is just geometry, the textures and sounds are my own) to the 'next' suitable environment.

But the point for me (as you correctly say Len) is what works now. I could port all my old stuff from VRML into SL, just as I could port the SL stuff into whatever comes next, but I'd rather just move on. I've archived/documented what I need to as a professional artist (mainly using video dumps).

I can't stress enough, though, my main point which is that artist/ content creators need two things in realtime net-based 3D: inworld tools and multi-user capability. Without those two things the artists will not come.

This is illustrated by the other projects I'm currently collaborating on, one that uses the Torque engine to create educational worlds, another that uses Unreal, and another that uses a feedback cycle between Pure Data and Torque. They all have inworld tools and multi- user capability. Also, all of these tools run well on Mac.

Adam

On 27/12/2006, at 2:08 PM, Len Bullard wrote:

For art, yes.  You have a good gig, Adam.

As Eric Maranne notes, real-time 3D is the medium, VR is a genre of that
medium. Simulation and visualization are other genres.


Two announcements worth mentioning:

http://www.web3d.org/news/releases/archives/2006/12/ ogc_and_web3d_c.php

http://www.stottlerhenke.com/news/pr_simventive.htm

There is a certain satisfaction in that second one. ;-)

The drive for standards is always a slow one. SL is a good venue for the
artists because like a major record label, it provides the tools, the
environment and as you say, the built in audience. This is good for art
because as noted here before, art needs management of resources and that is
being supported in SL (see previous posts on interviews with SL's first
content millionaire). SL is a server-farm and for MU, that is the right
technology today. Tomorrow? Who knows. Make it work for you now, get the
reputation, build up the repertoire and keep going. The only worry about SL
is can you take it with you? As the VR content millionaire noted, her
company is ensuring that should SL suddenly collapse, her business will keep
on keeping on.


In emerging markets, which real time 3D still is, there is room for many
labels and as Netscape showed, the candle burning bright in the beginning
may not be the one that lasts. Best of luck!


len


From: owner-x3d-public@web3d.org [mailto:owner-x3d- public@web3d.org] On
Behalf Of Adam Nash


Hi All,
It will take more than one book I'm afraid. I'm an artist (or in your
world "content author"), and I've been making work in VRML since
1997. A long, hard, frustrating slog.

Two things are necessary for artists to take up this medium. Inworld
tools and multi-user capability.

MU has always been off the agenda for X3D, with the logic that
someone will use the spec to build a MU solution. Well, nobody ever
did. For years, I messed around with VNet and Contact  but it was an
incredibly frustrating experience, even with the kind and supportive
help of Russ Kinter and Steve Guynup. In a bid to get work out there,
I put up single-user versions of my work on the web, asking people to
download Cortona and apologising to Mac users (who make up a
disproportionately large proportion of my audience) that they
wouldn't be able to hear any of the sounds, since they were in mp3
format.

Then, along comes Second Life. Massively Multi-User? Check. Inworld
building tools? Check. Simple but effective scripting? Check. Already
established audience? Check. Cross-platform? Check.

I design quickly on a piece on paper, log in to SL and start building
it straight away. Friends come around inworld and talk to me while
I'm building it. Within days of starting building my audiovisual
sculptures in SL, I had a commercial offer to commission a work.

It's very true that SL is also a very frustrating environment to work
in, especially when one is used to the power and flexibility of VRML/
X3D, but as an artist I'm prepared to accept the limitations in order
to have inworld building tools and a built-in audience who already
possess the vocabulary necessary to experience the work (no more
explaining the medium, they're already in it!).

I agree with Dave A that the spec is not designed for content
authors, rather its been driven by browser programmers, and yet there
are so few browsers that anybody knows about. I know that there'll be
lots of replies saying 'our browser is used by xyz' etc, but I live
in a world of very talented net-savvy digital artist/designers and
none of them have ever heard of Flux or XJ3D or Cortona, or X3D
itself. But they all use Second Life, because you just download it
and start. If you have to read a book about it first, it'll never
take off.

I miss the power of VRML (I would say X3D but to be honest I haven't
a clue how to use it other than authoring in VMRL then translating)
when I'm working in SL, but as an artist I have to be able to work.

I look forward to Don and Leonard's book, and will try to keep
working in this medium, mainly for sentimental reasons (I've  been on
this list continuously since joining www-vrml in 97), in the hope
that I'll be able to synthesise the two worlds (pun intended) of X3D
and SL.

Kind Regards,
Adam Nash




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