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[www-vrml] ' X3D is still too complicated but ...'
Hi Guys,
' X3D is still too complicated but
...'
Please don't groan like that ...
It's some time since I raised this!
If X3D is to become ubiquitous, accessible to
'one man and his Dreamweaver 8',
is there a place for X3D-Lite ? 'Yes, yes,'
I realise that first it's necessary to
establish X3D-Strict , but will it be
more or less accessible than Cosmology?
Lurking on this list is like watching a
Maserati being designed, bit-by-bit,
when I'd be happy with a Ford Focus!
The XHTML community bit the bullet and, as you
may know, there are all
these flavours:
XHTML 1.0 Strict
XHTML 1.0
Transitional
XHTML 1.0 Frameset
XHTML-Basic 1.0
XHTML Mobile 1.0
wrt, "I have to mention one paper in particular...Herbert Stocker
...
presented the whole talk using the new nodes ...
he had designed.
The entire talk consisted of 3D examples of him
using these new nodes
which allow for highly dynamic animations
... Little balls follow the cursor and objects respond and animate
all over the screen."
A-a-a-a-a-a-a-agh! Sounds like the equivalent of sending
humans
to Mars - with just their carry on luggage - when
skeptics doubt
that we've been to the Moon!
I rest my case ...
Kitt Mason
___________________________
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:33
PM
Subject: [x3d-public] Web3D 2006 Impressions (WAS
Re: Norms and Affordances For Sustainable Content
> Len...your observation that "The history of VRML, Active
Worlds,
> Cybertown,
>> etc. will become the 'how the old
guys screwed up and us
>> young guys fixed it' very soon.
See SGML. If you want a
>> different outcome, there is a short
window of opportunity
>> to get X3D out front as the best deal for the
content owner.
> "
> is dead right BUT I'm not sure it's so
bad....SGML did in the end
> turn out too complicated and it took the time
and simplicity of HTML
> then XML
> to change the
world!
>
> And now for something completely different....a positive
post from me
> about X3D!
> I haven't seen anyone post
anything about the Web3D 2006 Symposium
> last week so I'll
just
> add my impressions. I was unbelievably pleasantly surprised. I
had
> honestly thought for quite
> some time that the
conference should probably be postponed a year and
> that it would
just turn
> out to be the usual suspects with incrementally improved demos
and
> papers. Au contraire!
> The papers were damn good and
really showed a high degree of
> maturation to the field.
>
> X3D is still too complicated but the VRML/X3D browsers out there
are
> really beginning to look good!
> In particular both the
bitmanagement and Xj3D browsers are really
> showing some
impressive capabilities.
> Shaders are making these things look like they
belong to graphics
> from this century and the ability to interact
with
> a lot of stuff at once is finally bringing the graphics quality up
to
> snuff.
>
> I have to mention one paper in
particular...Herbert Stocker from
> bitmanagement presented a talk
on his
> paper innocuously titled: "Linear Filters - Animating Objects in
a
> Flexible and Pleasing Way".
> Stocker presented the whole
talk using a customized version of BS
> Contact that implemented
the new nodes
> he had designed. The entire talk consisted of 3D examples
of him
> using these new nodes which allow
> for highly
dynamic animations that respond to the user's actions.
> Little
balls follow the cursor and objects
> respond and animate all over the
screen. It was the most impressive
> 3D talk I've seen in
years!
>
> What was most impressive to me was that it was clearly
implemented in
> a rock solid browser. We've
> been putting
together VRML animations that respond to user actions
> for years
but they always seem to have
> nasty boundary conditions and jerky
responses for example using a VCR
> type of control to control the
animation and
> move it forward or reverse and so on. There are always
problems. The
> Stocker presentations was completely solid
>
and responded in exactly the way one would expect and there were no
> glitches whatsoever. I don't know if bitmanagement
> can make a
video of this available but it would be great, at least
> until the
live actual version is available.
>
> Maybe this 3D stuff is
actually going to work ;-)
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Bullard, Claude L ((Len)) wrote:
>
>> That's cool, "Hat".
>>
>> BadGirl uses it.
In JOI she is very determined to have more
>> clica on the
objects.
>>
>> Given that presence is amplified and sustained
by feedback,
>> clica distinguishes the old "shoe box with an orange"
worlds from
>> compelling real time 3D. It's been obvious for
anyone who has
>> attended business meetings in the worlds that this
application
>> of presence to collaboration has legs. Onset cues
are everything.
>> There are still some problems of lag and use of text
interfaces,
>> but also some advantages.
>>
>> I
think the business types and probably some contingents
>> here miss the
point that for the content builders and content
>> customers, X3D is
still the best deal in terms of holding on to
>> investments.
Building in a world is good, but being able to
>> maintain and keep
what one builds is better. I don't think we
>> are even halfway
to the goal of what real time 3D systems can
>> achieve in terms of
immersion and behavioral shaping. On the
>> other hand, anyone
who thinks the business types are paying
>> attention to anything other
than subscription numbers
>> is mistaken. The history of VRML,
Active Worlds, Cybertown,
>> etc. will become the 'how the old guys
screwed up and us
>> young guys fixed it' very soon. See
SGML. If you want a
>> different outcome, there is a short window
of opportunity
>> to get X3D out front as the best deal for the content
owner.
>>
>> You really do want to own content and build
content for
>> others to own. A virtual economy can only
convert to
>> real dollars when the property of exchange has a
lifecycle
>> past the next rev of the specification. One really
doesn't
>> want to measure content time in server cycles. As I
said,
>> it is too much like a blog host that suddenly
disappears.
>>
>> A topic not discussed here as far as I can
remember is how
>> one can acquire affordances (operation rights) that
transfer
>> among worlds in accordance with the norms (cultural
constraints)
>> of a world. IOW, analogous to single sign on for
other network
>> apps, a means to share identity and ownership to
enable rights
>> regardless of the server owner or
vendor.
>>
>> len
>>
>>
>> From:
owner-www-vrml@web3d.org
[mailto:owner-www-vrml@web3d.org]On
>> Behalf Of Peter
Griffith
>>
>> Len from your blog :
>>
>>
'2. Clica (gestures as sensor events) can entertain, attract, repel,
>>
restore, whatever. They can also teach.
>> '
>>
>>
Don't know where you first came across *clica* but to me it will
>> always
>> be associated with an Australian lady who I met
in a blaxxun chat a
>> long
>> time
ago.
>>
>> About five years ago, it led to this little piece
of 2D fun :
>> *Incident
>> on Clica
Way*
>>
>> http://www.3dworlds.ca/misc/index.htm
>>
>> Peter 'griff' Griffith
>> aka Griff The Hat
:)
>>
>> PS The 'Fatman' is a sometime contributor to this
list (Rick Kimball)
>> and the Aussie lady is Relign/Feathers
;-)
>>
>>
>> Len Bullard wrote:
>>>
http://lamammals.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> My viewpoint only.. d'oh! Answers an
email someone sent me
>>> relative to
>>>
this.
>>>
>>>
len
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-x3d-public@web3d.org
[mailto:owner-x3d-
>>> public@web3d.org]On
>>>
Behalf Of Sandy Ressler
>>>
>>>
>>> Check
out:
>>> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_18/b3982001.htm
>>> a COVER STORY article about Second Life...looks
like virtual worlds
>>> are starting to have a real impact in the
traditional business
>>> world...Sandy
>>
>
>
NAME: Sandy Ressler TELE: (301) 975-3549
> USMAIL:
National Institute of Standards and Technology FAX:
(301)
> 975-5287
> 100 Bureau Drive, STOP 8940
>
Gaithersburg MD 20899-8940
>
> WEB: http://ovrt.nist.gov/people/sressler/sressler.html
> Open Virtual Reality Testbed
> http://ovrt.nist.gov
>
>
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