RE: [www-vrml] Tim BL Is Baffled, Too

["Linda Hahner" <linda.hahner@outoftheblue.com>]

Hi Miriam, Great comments! See below:

> Please understand that when I am critical of the consortium I am annoyed
> at the idea and the result; not the people. I know the people who are
> involved in the consortium thought (and generally still think) they're
> doing the right thing. They are good people who are honestly interested in
> getting the best for web3d. Unfortunately this involved chasing the
> corporate dollar and being sensitive to the needs of their corporate
> allies. In giving the corporate sponsors value for their money (an inside
> view, extra influence over development, a closed mailing list, and other
> special treats) they effectively closed out the main hope for VRML: the
> users and authors and students.

The Consortium is a membership organization. But when you see large
corporations listed among its members this usually means one or two very
dedicated programmers who have taken the time to encourage their companies
to join because they (a.) see a future in Web3D or (b) see a need for the
development of an open 3D standard in the future development of their
products or services.

Without these dedicated people (and their corporations, agencies,
universities) and the money they bring to the table the Consortium would
have died long ago.

What makes me sad (or angry) is when I see these hard earned dollars going
to the same stupid activities --marketing sizzle, new websites, new pr
agencies, etc--as if these activities would ever restore the Consortium to
the days when it had many of the brightest minds in 3D graphics working on a
what appeared to be a simple but profound solution--VRML.
>
>>Tony wrote>>

First off, there has been very little to date that has been closed off. Up
until a certain company came along two years ago and created the first-ever
members-only dynamic, Web3D had never excluded anybody from the dialog.

This is not true. Many people have been excluded from the dialog. X3D is
struggling to get heard or recognized or to even be acknowledged outside
this increasingly small group because a lot of the brighter and more
advanced programmers just didn't want to fight the politics that became
synonymous with the Consortium. Before that "certain company" (Intel) there
were other turf wars dating back to the beginning of VRML time. We had wars
between SGI, Microsoft, InterVista,  &  Sun. (These sound like big companies
but they were all just a handful of people who had real names and who
literally fought for improvements to the spec right here on the list.) These
turf wars were about the technology and improving VRML. They got rough but
they were always productive.

Today, what amuses me the most is that almost everyone has moved on except a
"certain person" who has made a business model out of writing standards...
and then developing proprietary tools that take advantage of these
standards. Many others went on to building other very viable technology
companies in other areas. They got rich and now wonder what all that
excitement about Web3D was all about. Basically, they were smart and they
were leaders and they would have done well no matter what they were
developing.

The bottom line (I have been writing this since 2000) is as long as the
Consortium allows a small group to rule (that certain company or that
certain person) the last man standing could well end up standing with an ISO
standard that nobody uses because it just does not work as well as VRML
which was designed by a very strong group of smart, dedicated programmers
whose companies allowed them to work full time on the spec.

Trust me, I am not caught in a time warp even though it would be easy to
write off my comments as those of a bitter person who wants to remain in the
past; just as it is easy to write off that "certain company" or those
"certain people" who left because they were tired of the politics and could
see the train coming down the track.


Miriam, please keep up the great work! I hope to get to your part of the
world this year.

Best wishes,

Linda


I

Second, there is a fallacy here about process. To think that hundreds of
users, authors and students you cite can *design a system* together is quite
naïve. It just doesn't work that way. The broader group can be deeply
involved in defining requirements and reviewing designs all throughout the
process, but the actual design can only be done by a *very small* group. In
a perfect world, that's 1-5 people. With working groups and open process, it
tends to be double that size. But beyond size, that the process simply
becomes unmanageable.

(My opinion here) If anything, Web3D has had too many cooks and that has
resulted in some weird crap in X3D. If it was back in the day when we had a
VAG-- 8 of us, still 3 too many IMO-- X3D would have been done two years
sooner. But yes, the larger community should be involved throughout that
process in several ways. And with open source widely available the broad
community can help with implementations and tools in a way that wasn't
possible back in the early VRML days.

So, I guess I disagree not only with the assessment about how open
everything has been, but also the outcome of that.
 
> I have never understood why a corporate sponsor wouldn't see belonging to
> the consortium as a good in itself without the need for special insider
> status. Surely they are there to help achieve web3d, and that is its own
> best reward. By including the wider community they can only enhance that
> aim.
>

I couldn't agree more. But I think only certain vendors have felt that way.
 
I agree with your other points. But all I can say is that I think your focus
is misplaced and your energy would be better spent building solutions upon
what we have already done. It's not perfect but it's darn good (as good as
*any* proprietary solution out there) and at this point there shouldn't be
anything holding you back.

Except those darn authoring tools. Why can't anybody get those right? Well,
hang on for another six months. The tool situation will improve
dramatically. You'll see.

Tony

[remainder snipped]




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