RE: [www-vrml] Tim BL Is Baffled, Too

["Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <len.bullard@intergraph.com>]

The consortium enables, it does not propose, and in terms 
of your business model, it does not dispose.  All of the 
open source community work has value.  I've no objection 
to that.

The security of linux has never been tested to the degree
that Windows has been.   Windows security is improving 
and the SP update is good.   In some cases, semi-permeable 
systems are the right answer regardless of the operating 
system used.  That is the world I work in.  We never and 
likely will never expose a system wide-open to the Internet. 
It's too risky.  That said, many edge systems are being 
created that will and do.

Will it work everywhere?  If Flux is downloaded, it does. 
If Cortona or Contact are downloaded, they do.  In fact, 
I don't have any problems loading VRML or X3D worlds. 
They just don't load in the same plug-ins.  I suspect 
if I tried to play Flash without MM, that wouldn't work 
either.  By committing to open standards and royalty 
free implementations, the consortium committed to the 
high road but it is also the long road.  You know all 
of this so I think we are debating for the fun of it.

I do know about the stats, Clayton.  I read them when 
Tim Bray posts them, when CNet posts them, and so on. 
Slashdot is not where I go for facts.

They don't read the RFPs and RFIs for public safety 
systems and I do. Believe me, when those start calling 
for Firefox, we'll use it.   It is just a few points 
at this time.  Firefox is a superior browser.  Guess 
what?  That doesn't mean it will win any more than 
a superior candidate for president wins an American 
election.   It takes more than tabs to break a Nash 
equilibrium.   I also suspect that before that threat 
is great, MS will release a new browser and it will 
have even better features.  The truth is though, the 
web is moving away from browser-contained applications 
in the medium term because there aren't any compelling 
reasons to host the plumbing inside the containers 
other than the fact of the laziness of the web 
programmers.  Another Nash equilibrium that.

The disconnect is that few UIs developed with 3D have 
made a difference in the mass market for GUIs outside 
of games.  In games, 2D and 3D are blended.  That is 
what will happen for 3D on the desktop.  That is why 
I call for an SVG layer in X3D.  Even then, without 
drag and drop RADEs, it still won't get much traction. 
An application developer does not want to twiddle 
vertices.  They want libraries.   The framework is 
the essence of productive app building.    That is 
the disconnect:  productivity applications.

len


From: Clayton Cottingham [mailto:drfrog@telus.net]

When trying to sell 3d over 2d the main sticking point has always been
crossplatform reliability

Clients always ask me

Will it work everywhere? Will people be able to use 3d and be able to
purchaee stuff as easily as with 2d

I have to honestly answer them no, unless you have a captive audience; they
will all be using the same plugin then it's a no go

Im not saying linux is perfect, but for those people who include security in
there feature sets and specs you have to see that the choice is clear

As far as rfi/rfp's.. Well its not like the consortium seems approachable on
these things does it?

That's why jeff is doing xvrml.. Why freewrl and openvrml are doing things
regardless of the consortium feeling or blessings





A few percentage points? You obviously didn't click through on the links len

Firefox is gaining , and this new  jpg exploit isnt going to improve user
confidence in IE/M$






Besides all the business stuff this is about usability



As far as usability goes, vrml/x3d sucks It doesn't penetrate the net like
html does & it has no uniform programming interface..
Yes you can get your programming to work in this OR that plugin 

But rarely is it easy to get it to work in both

This disconnect is the main dysfunction in vrml/x3d and by ignoring it does
it go away?

As charles fourier would say

Squelch a passion and it causes dysfunction

The passion here , collectively, is to see a internet that embraces VR/3d as
a usable interface that no matter what o/s/browser/harware configuration you
can get into the VR and use it

Sounds simple?

So what is the disconnect?
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