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RE: [www-vrml] SP2 vs. The Plugins: Anchor Node Bug



There is another BUG(?!):
Every anchor node to a html (non-3d file) in a wrl/x3d file is filtered in
Flux, BS-Contact and Blaxxun (in IE) after clicking onto the reffering
3d-object in the 3d space.
No error sound, no hint....
Is there a solution for this problem?

Kay Melzer

Dipl.Inform.(FH)
Creator of MedWorld3D
FH-Dortmund - University of applied sciences
Abteilung medizin-technische Informatik Department of medical computer
sciences
Dortmund - Germany


Business contact:
FH-Dortmund, Abtlg. med. techn. Informatik
Kay Melzer - Hauspostkasten 52
Emil-Figge-Str. 42
44227 Dortmund
EMail: kay.melzer@fh-dortmund.de
Web: www.fhdo.edu.tf
Web: www.3d-node.com
ICQ: 51094929
Phone: +49 179 1354278
Fax: +49 179 1354278 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-www-vrml@web3d.org 
> [mailto:owner-www-vrml@web3d.org] On Behalf Of George Birbilis
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:46 AM
> To: Paul Aslin; 'www-vrml'
> Subject: Re: [www-vrml] SP2 vs. The Plugins
> 
> > Oh BTW the missing status bar in SP1 or later version of XP is 
> > actually a bug, the bar comes and goes at will. Which is not a good 
> > thing when there is where the security "padlock"
> > icon is displayed.
> 
> it's available from View menu of IE, but maybe if a page 
> writes to the status bar via JavaScript, IE shows the 
> statusbar automatically if it's hidden (haven't tried it). 
> BTW, a page can hide the statusbar when they open a new HTML 
> window (these are called "window decorations" in Netscape 
> terminology I think). I agree the "padlock" and other 
> status/feedback icons are a problem, but web browsers were 
> designed like that originally cause Netscape envisioned them 
> as an application platform that would replace classic desktop 
> OS GUIs, like Windows. Few custom app GUI designers would 
> like to have that bar at the bottom of their window
> 
> > > That was already a case and so is with signed applets 
> etc. You can't 
> > > split that in two prompts, one before downloading the 
> resource and 
> > > one after (once the OS checked the file downloaded OK, is signed 
> > > with a valid certificate, has not been tampered with etc.). You 
> > > can't split that in two files either, you have to prompt the user 
> > > ONCE before installing. The activeX control is thus considered an 
> > > integral part of the page functionality and the whole page isn't 
> > > considered yet downloaded till that downloads
> >
> > But this is exactly what happens when you download an .exe 
> program of 
> > a website or CD !
> > Firstly it asks if you wish to 'run' or 'save' the file. If 
> you then 
> > choose 'run' it downloads the file and then presents the install 
> > wizard etc.
> 
> In the case you mention (download a file), you're in fact 
> prompted only once if you select to "run" the file, not 
> twice. The executable you run may not show any GUI etc. and 
> just run. There's no install wizard, it just happens that 
> most stuff you download, AFTER THEY RUN, show a GUI since 
> they're self-extractable archives that contain an 
> installation GUI (much friendlier than unix tarballs, but 
> it's executable code that before you run you don't know what it is).
> 
> BTW, it seems XP SP2 now marks executables downloaded from 
> the internet somehow in your system (maybe in metainfo at the 
> filesystem, don't suppose it modifies the .EXE cause it would 
> break some installers if it did so [they'd think the EXE was 
> cracked]). Whenever you run those executables in the future, 
> it shows a dialog saying this was downloaded from the net, it 
> checks if they're digitally signed or not, if the signature 
> is valid (file not tampered with) and aks if you're sure you 
> want to run them (plus has option to not prompt for that 
> specific file again in the future). Much better for new users 
> in security means. In previous Windows versions (e.g.
> on a Win2000), I had reported to MS that it wasn't even 
> checking if a file was signed and tampered with (invalid 
> signature) to warn you before you run that file (you had to 
> right click the file yourself before running it and see its 
> property pages to check if there was a signature and if it 
> was valid which was too much for everyday use)
> 
> > > (place the site in
> > > non-trusted zone to avoid the download in the first place if you 
> > > care about speed, or change the settings for the 
> "Internet zone" and 
> > > make it NEVER download ActiveX controls is you want 
> speedup and are 
> > > sure you won't need and will not want to use ActiveX 
> controls ever)
> >
> > Try writing a step by step tutorial on the process of doing 
> this and 
> > you will realize that this is not exactly a user friendly task.
> 
> very easy:
> 
> 1) click on the address bar (if not visible, select menu 
> option View/Toolbars/Address bar)
> 2) click at the first character of the host part of the URL 
> address (e.g.
> the first "w" char of www.someserver.com)
> 3) shift+click at the last character of the host part of the 
> URL address (e.g. the last "m" char of www.someserver.com) to 
> select that part
> 4) right click on the selected URL address part and select 
> "Copy" from the popup menu
> 5) go to "Tools/Internet Options..." menu
> 6) click on the "Security" tab
> 7) click on "Restricted sites"
> 8) press the "Default Level" button so that you see the 
> reading "High" at the "Security level" scrollbar
> 9) press the "Sites..." button (a new dialog will open)
> 10) right click in the textbox labeled "Add this website to 
> the zone:" and select "Paste" from the popup menu
> 11) press the "Add" button
> 12) press OK to close the "Restricted sites" dialog
> 13) press OK to close the "Internet Options" dialog
> 
> btw, you can also access that same "Internet Options" dialog 
> from the menus of various other programs, Microsoft and 
> non-Microsoft ones (they all use the same settings)
> 
> > I think you have missed my point here which is simply...
> > ... why is it so hard to actually stop certain ActiveX 
> controls from 
> > downloading.
> >
> > And by this I mean for the average computer user, who 
> firstly may not 
> > know just which website the control was downloaded from, and be 
> > willing to dig through the numerious places of Internet Option to 
> > figure out what changes what. This is suppost to be as simple as 
> > possible, its not rocket science.
> 
> Because the user should never know what the page needs in 
> order to show, they care just to see the page! If the page 
> author says it needs an ActiveX control, the author knows 
> better if their page will or won't show without that ActiveX 
> control (e.g. Flux VRML/X3D browser). The user should ONLY be 
> warned and made aware of the usage of a potentially hazardous 
> item in that page, if there's a security issue involved. That 
> is they should never see any warnings, prompts etc. if they 
> have that site in their "Trusted sites"
> zone, or if that control is digitally signed by a publisher 
> that they have already selected to "always trust" at a 
> previous time they had been asked about some content from 
> that publisher (those publishers are in the "Content" page of 
> the "Internet Options" dialog, at the "Publishers..."
> button and you can add/remove such too manually from there).
> 
> The problem of an unsigned control eating up bandwidth to 
> first download and then having you reply you don't trust it 
> is unsolvable, since the browser HAS to download the full 
> archive of the control to unpack it and see if it's signed or 
> not and if the content hasn't been tampered with (say 
> infected by a virus or some trojan injected in the CAB 
> archive etc.) after it had been signed. So unless you disable 
> ActiveX controls permantently in your internet zone (good 
> only if you don't use Flash, VRML/X3D etc.), or per web host 
> or site (say add them in the "Restricted sites" zone), you'll 
> suffer that time penalty of getting the controls downloaded 
> first and you getting prompted after (prompting you twice 
> would be a usability nightmare, plus a page can contain 
> several such items)
> 
> > Let just say for example CompanyZ brings out an ActiveX 
> control which 
> > contains a bug that causes problems for certain computers, do you 
> > think the media will be able to explain just how the prevent this 
> > ActiveX control from bwing downloaded.
> 
> by being downloaded it doesn't mean it RUNS!
> so it can't cause absolutely ANY problem if the user doesn't 
> decide to trust and install it when prompted
> 
> in fact with XP SP2, the user's space isn't intruded by some 
> popup dialog that asks if they trust an ActiveX control, the 
> default setting is to block them and a sound is played, plus 
> a security bar shown at the top of the window (under the 
> menubar if that's visible) that prompts you some item was 
> blocked and to right click there to see more info and be 
> prompted to unblock that item if you wish. Then the user from 
> there can select to trust a publisher (say Macromedia) or a 
> website so that they don't get that default ActiveX control 
> blocking behaviour. That's a bit more problematic for website 
> designers, but much better for the users who would just press "Yes"
> in any popup dialog they saw when they were trying to visit a webpage
> 
> > > I do agree though that while a page downloads one shouldn't see a 
> > > blank window but something better INSIDE the window (not at some 
> > > status bar or at some rotating browser icon)
> >
> > well this area would be a good place to put information about the 
> > plugin itself, perhaps a jpg the content author supplies to 
> be shown 
> > untill the plugin is ready.
> 
> the problem is the control might be invisible or 0x0 sized in 
> the page, or many control might be there, so it wouldn't 
> always help (although I agree that showing an optional 
> placeholder with ActiveX control download info [similar to 
> the optional show-placeholder setting for images IE has] 
> would be nice [to define in the OBJECT parameters in the 
> HTML]). I was thinking of the whole page showing something 
> (some progress icon) instead of a blank screen till some of 
> its content gets ready to render. Cause as it is now users 
> (esp. on modems) think the browser just "crashed" (cause the 
> window remains blank for some time and if there's no status 
> bar, you just rely on the rotating "e" icon to understand 
> it's still working and not "crashed")
> 
> cheers,
> George
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> George Birbilis <birbilis@kagi.com> [Microsoft MVP for 
> 2004-J#] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> + QuickTime VCL and ActiveX controls (for PowerPoint/VB/Delphi etc.) 
> + Plugs VCL and ActiveX controls (InterProcess/Internet 
> communication) 
> + TransFormations, VB6 forms to ASP.net WebForms convertion
> http://www.kagi.com/birbilis
> + Robotics
> http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~robgroup
> ..............................................................
> ..........
> 
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