RE: [www-vrml] VRML still the most popular Web3D format - by far.

["Richard F. Puk" <puk@igraphics.com>]

Hi, Eric --

OOPS! Freudian slip! I did know that :^(

  -- Dick

/***************************************************
* Richard F. Puk, Ph.D., President
* Intelligraphics Incorporated
* 7644 Cortina Court
* Carlsbad, CA  92009-8206
* Tel: +1-760-753-9027
* E-Mail: puk@igraphics.com
\*************************************************** 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric [mailto:emi@nerim.net] 
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 3:36 PM
> To: 'Richard F. Puk'
> Subject: RE: [www-vrml] VRML still the most popular Web3D 
> format - by far.
> 
>  > Parallel Graphics will become X3D comformant as soon as 
> they can find the necessary resources to make the (mostly 
> minor) changes needed to Contact.
> 
> Just before a war is started : :-p
> 
> Parallegraphics viewer is named Cortona
> Contact is Bitmanagement's, almost x3D compliant
> 
> And yes, both are playing in the back room :!
> 
> Eric.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-www-vrml@web3d.org 
> [mailto:owner-www-vrml@web3d.org] On Behalf Of Richard F. Puk
> Sent: lundi 30 août 2004 22:33
> To: 'Linda Hahner'; 'VRML list'
> Subject: RE: [www-vrml] VRML still the most popular Web3D 
> format - by far.
> 
> Hi, Linda --
> 
> Please note that X3D is also an approved ISO standard 
> (although it is still in the process of ISO publication). 
> Note also that there are significant improvements in X3D over 
> VRML that provide support for better quality images and more 
> consistent behaviour. Amendment 1 (now in preparation) will 
> add the ability to support programmable shaders which will 
> allow for very high quality worlds. There will also be 
> support for importing from CAD systems so that X3D models can 
> be accurate with regard to actual physical devices.
> 
> There are two excellent (and conformant) browsers that are 
> being heavily used in industrial applications. These are Xj3D 
> (open source and available from the Web3D Consortium web 
> site) and Flux from Media Machines. Please try them out. In 
> addition, Parallel Graphics will become X3D comformant as 
> soon as they can find the necessary resources to make the 
> (mostly minor) changes needed to Contact.
> 
>   -- Dick
> 
> /***************************************************
> * Richard F. Puk, Ph.D., President
> * Intelligraphics Incorporated
> * 7644 Cortina Court
> * Carlsbad, CA  92009-8206
> * Tel: +1-760-753-9027
> * E-Mail: puk@igraphics.com
> \***************************************************
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-www-vrml@web3d.org
> > [mailto:owner-www-vrml@web3d.org] On Behalf Of Linda Hahner
> > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:55 AM
> > To: 'VRML list'
> > Subject: RE: [www-vrml] VRML still the most popular Web3D 
> format - by 
> > far.
> > 
> > Len,
> > 
> > I have never known you to shy from the truth. This is well 
> written as 
> > always. I appreciate your taking the time to make the post. (More
> > below)
> >  
> > The emotions are running high.  That's a good thing.
> > Emotional energy moves the mammals.
> > 
> > Facts.  I can provide some.  I've served on the BoD for a 
> year and my 
> > term is up.  Since I think the professional slots should be held by 
> > content builders and rotated so more of you have experience 
> with the 
> > administration, I won't run for a second term.  If you want a say, 
> > there it is.  Sign up and fight for your positions.
> > 
> > I served on the BOD during the melt down of major browsers and the 
> > early days of X3D. I was not happy with what I saw then and what I 
> > predicted has pretty much come to pass.
> > Certain things are impossible to fight. All we can do is watch and 
> > wait. I will not serve on the BOD again if it means dealing 
> with the 
> > sort of chaos you mention in point 1.
> > 
> > Since I'm not running, I can be a bit more forthcoming:
> > 
> > 1.  Tony's version states the facts.
> > 
> > a) Intel was muscling the consortium.  He stood up to them and was 
> > pushed out.  He was brought back without dissent after Intel's 
> > conflict of interest with the consortium forced the BoD to ask for 
> > Intel's resignation.  It was as amicable as those things can be.
> > 
> > I really do not want to know more about why the BOD would 
> ask for the 
> > resignation of a major PC stakeholder. My early post 
> expresses how I 
> > feel about that from a business standpoint.
> > 
> > b) The conflict of interest was 3DIF.  Intel's proposal for using 
> > proprietary technology for the CAD project was rejected.
> > They formed their own invitation-only consortium to further their 
> > work.  They have had access to all of the W3DC's work.
> > The formation of 3DIF was a clear violation of the W3DC 
> working rules 
> > and a direct conflict of interest.
> > 
> > Excellent analysis. I just wish there could have been a 
> compromise. No 
> > matter how we feel about this company, if there is a new ISO 3D 
> > standard backed by major players, the Consortium can just 
> pack it in.
> > 
> > 2. While some VRML users believe that X3D is not VRML, anyone who 
> > reads the ISO standard knows this is false.  It is the evolution of 
> > VRML.  VRML97 will not evolve past its current version.  
> VRML in the 
> > form of the X3D specification and standard will.
> > 
> > For all intents and purposes, my company will remain with the
> > 1 million plus other users who use VRML and compliant 
> viewers in all 
> > of our proposals and projects. It is an ISO standard.
> > It works as well as we need it to. My intention is not to 
> fight with 
> > anyone. Just look at the chart. If you are selling 
> something you need 
> > to know there are numbers behind what you propose. If X3D 
> matures to 
> > the point where it has 1 million plus on the graph, if X3D 
> tools and 
> > browsers move beyond early stage beta and into a mainstream 
> where we 
> > can rely on the results a well as VRML then we will evaluate the 
> > merits of moving to X3D.
> > 
> > In the meantime, I am not going to pretend. We will use any 3D 
> > standard or technology that enables us to reach the 
> greatest number of 
> > people with the least amount of energy.
> > This is business.
> > 
> > Thanks again for your continued insight!
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Linda
> > 
> > While some VRMLers fight among themselves, independent 
> efforts such as 
> > 3DIF and others are creating competing standards under 
> > royalty-encumbered agreements to use the "numbers" as Linda 
> calls them 
> > to get a tipping point in favor of their products.  It is part of a 
> > long term strategy to dominate other markets that rely on vector 
> > graphics pipelines and sell next generation hardware 
> products.  Intel 
> > engaged the Intergraph corporation in a long and bitter lawsuit to 
> > wrest the intellectual property of Intergraph from them.  It cost 
> > Intergraph it's hardware division and the loss of two thousand 
> > employees.  Eventually, Intergraph prevailed in court and won a 
> > sizable settlement with follow ons with other vendors.  The 
> costs of 
> > this were very high.  These are goombah tactics but they 
> work and the 
> > large companies know that unless a company has the assets 
> to fight it 
> > out in the American and European and Australian courts, 
> they can win 
> > by use of force.  If you support such 'business models', selah.
> > Go in peace.
> > 
> > The acquistion of IP for defensive and offensive acts has become a 
> > very important tactic in the long term strategy of gaining 
> and holding 
> > market share.  Real time 3D graphics and other vector 
> graphics formats 
> > are caught in the middle of this.  Part of that strategy is to use 
> > weak consortia such as ECMA to put a standards patina on these 
> > efforts.
> > Without participation agreements that spell out policies for IP 
> > contributions, they will use the faux standards and 'the 
> numbers' to 
> > lock-in unassailable positions that ensure that they own all of the 
> > patentable concepts associated with vector graphics systems.  It is 
> > possible for ECMA to pass on its work to ISO, but it conflicts with 
> > current ISO standards and there is no decision, only speculation.
> > 
> > You can fight among yourselves or you can work together to 
> protect the 
> > commons based on prior art.  The patent offices of the world are 
> > sympathetic and will help you if they can but they are in very weak 
> > positions.  Whatever you may think of the W3DC as a fringe element 
> > that wrested control, I have found them to be honorable men 
> with high 
> > values who know the value of their values.  They have defended your 
> > rights to this technology and have used their time and 
> assets to that
> > end.   Those who deride them in a ceaseless effort to increase
> > their own numbers without contributing to the protection of the 
> > graphics commons are enriching themselves at your expense and 
> > betraying you by pretending to defend VRML while 
> distracting you from 
> > making efforts in your own best interests.
> > 
> > Deal with the facts.  Deal with the consequences of actions.
> > If you want an open standard backed by open source and commercial 
> > applications, if you still want to achieve all that the VRMLers set 
> > out to achieve, you will help the W3DC instead of butchering each 
> > other.
> > 
> > Have it as you will.  It's an ego thing for some of you.
> > For others, it is the pleasure of tending a garden where even kids 
> > with no budgets but a thirst to learn come to harvest by your 
> > examples.  You decide what they find there.
> > 
> > len
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-www-vrml@web3d.org [mailto:owner-www-vrml@web3d.org]On
> > Behalf Of Joe D Williams
> > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:47 PM
> > To: Linda Hahner; 'Aaron Bergstrom'; 'VRML list'
> > Subject: Re: [www-vrml] VRML still the most popular Web3D 
> format - by 
> > far.
> > 
> > 
> > Linda > Instead of enriching the feature spec, the 
> Consortium decided 
> > to limit it.
> > 
> > I would like to see One technical or emotional fact that supports 
> > this.
> > Joe
> > 
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