Difference between revisions of "Minutes from Web3D Seoul Meeting, Seoul, Korea, Dec. 7-8, 2009"

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survey of such capabilities?  Is there a conference that supports it?  
 
survey of such capabilities?  Is there a conference that supports it?  
 
Hopefully the Medical Working Group can answer these questions.  
 
Hopefully the Medical Working Group can answer these questions.  
 
  
 
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http://www.web3d.org/news/permalink/web3d-to-showcase-x3d-at-the-ar-devcamp  
 
http://www.web3d.org/news/permalink/web3d-to-showcase-x3d-at-the-ar-devcamp  
  
> 밫he first Augmented Reality Development Camp (AR DevCamp) will be held  
+
The first Augmented Reality Development Camp (AR DevCamp) will be held  
 
> on Saturday December 5, 2009 at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View CA and  
 
> on Saturday December 5, 2009 at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View CA and  
 
> simultaneously in New York City and around the world!  
 
> simultaneously in New York City and around the world!  
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that provides such fonts.  
 
that provides such fonts.  
 
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts  
 
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts  
 
  
 
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earlier), IMS and Web3D.  We will discuss it further in tomorrow's  
 
earlier), IMS and Web3D.  We will discuss it further in tomorrow's  
 
meeting.  
 
meeting.  
 
  
 
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primary representative is Mike McCann of MBARI who is also cochair  
 
primary representative is Mike McCann of MBARI who is also cochair  
 
of the X3D Earth Working Group.  
 
of the X3D Earth Working Group.  
 
  
 
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Consortium@web3d.org  
 
Consortium@web3d.org  
 
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/consortium_web3d.org
 
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/consortium_web3d.org
 
  
 
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===''' December 8, 2009 '''===
 
===''' December 8, 2009 '''===
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minutes from Web3D Korea chapter meeting, day 2   
 
minutes from Web3D Korea chapter meeting, day 2   
  
 
 
 
Continuation from yesterday.  
 
Continuation from yesterday.  
 
  
 
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Minutes recorded by myself with periodic detailed review by the group.  
 
Minutes recorded by myself with periodic detailed review by the group.  
 
  
 
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14.  H-Anim.  Myeong-Won Lee presented her updated slideset for  
 
14.  H-Anim.  Myeong-Won Lee presented her updated slideset for  
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Working groups that succeed follow these steps.  Working groups that are  
 
Working groups that succeed follow these steps.  Working groups that are  
 
not organized will fail or dissolve.  
 
not organized will fail or dissolve.  
 
  
 
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This is different from many of our other technical working groups, and this  
 
This is different from many of our other technical working groups, and this  
 
seems like it has the potential to be very energizing.  
 
seems like it has the potential to be very energizing.  
 
  
 
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community about this is a good way to assess people's interest and  
 
community about this is a good way to assess people's interest and  
 
potential involvement.  
 
potential involvement.  
 
  
 
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working group."  Not found... can we get those publicized on the  
 
working group."  Not found... can we get those publicized on the  
 
above website page?  
 
above website page?  
 
  
 
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- Perhaps a public X3D Showcase demonstration  
 
- Perhaps a public X3D Showcase demonstration  
 
  
 
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all the best, Don  
 
all the best, Don  
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Watkins 270  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  work +1.831.656.2149  
 
Watkins 270  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  work +1.831.656.2149  
 
X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF  http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman  
 
X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF  http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman  
 
  
 
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X3d@web3d.org  
 
X3d@web3d.org  
 
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org
 
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org
 
  
 
----
 
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==''' December 8, 2009 '''==
 
==''' December 8, 2009 '''==
 
  
 
Revised last section  
 
Revised last section  
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This will be the subject of further discussion by the chapter,  
 
This will be the subject of further discussion by the chapter,  
 
probably in January or February.  
 
probably in January or February.  
 
  
 
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Watkins 270  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  work +1.831.656.2149  
 
Watkins 270  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA  work +1.831.656.2149  
 
X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF  http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman  
 
X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF  http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman  
 
  
 
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Revision as of 10:25, 23 January 2012

December 7, 2009

[Consortium] minutes from Web3D Korea chapter meeting (revised)

1. We had a very productive meeting of the Web3D Korea chapter in Seoul Korea, Monday 7 December

Attendees:

Dr. Myeong Won Lee, Suwon University, Chapter organizer

Dr. Kwan-hee Yoo, Chungbuk National University

Dr. Ha-Jine Kimn, Korea Standards Association (KSA) and Hallym University

Dr. Gun Lee, Electronics and Telecommunication Research Institute (ETRI)

Dr. Byounghyun Yoo, MIT Singapore Alliance

Pranveer Singh, Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST)

JungSeop Jung, Chapter secretary, Korea Standards Association (KSA)

JinSang Hwang, PartDB Co., Ltd. Dr. Yong-Sang Cho, Korea Education and Research Information Service (KERIS)

Dr. Cheong-weon Oh, Namseoul University

Dr. Don Brutzman, Naval Postgraduate School (NPS) and member Web3D Consortium Board of Directors (BoD)

Minutes recorded by myself with periodic detailed review by the group.


2. Units proposal, Myeong Won Lee

Dr. Lee showed her classic example with a bacterium and a larger cell, demonstrated in her Units browser. This showed that the concepts can work satisfactorily. The video of the demo will be placed online in the Korea Chapter document directory.

Sh has also made an X3D schema extension to validate the new construct, tested in Eclipse and X3D-Edit.

There are 2 approaches to Unit grammar checks, details shown in slides. The second approach, which explicitly declares each type of unit (rather than multiple name and value pairs) seems preferable since it will enable X3D DTD or Schema checking of valid content. The first approach can also be checked, but only by applications or external rules (such as X3D Schematron).

Note of explanation: X3D Schematron is an additional form of XML validation used to detect problems and help assure the quality and correctness of X3D scenes. http://www.web3d.org/x3d/tools/schematron/X3dSchematron.html

Possible schema change variations: - put the Unit statement in the <head> section of a scene, since each kind of unit can only be defined once per file/document - However there is a problem that we might not have considered. Alternatively make the Unit statement immediately follow the X3D <Scene> root in order to make it more available at run time, since head/component/meta tags are not retrievable once loaded - Alternatively, how would an SAI script change units for a scene graph created or loaded in memory already? - Essentially this is a Scene Access Interface (SAI) question: how will SAI handle Unit definitions in a scene?

This small problem needs to be considered by the working group.

Units need to be added to an X3D v3.3 schema - Don will work on creating a new schema that includes Myeong-Won's work - Dr. Lee's schema extensions will be very helpful and will be considered - Don may need to vary some upper/lower case conventions and avoid abbreviations to match other definitions in X3D DOCTYPE and Schema - Don will add X3D v3.3 draft support in X3D-Edit - Dr. Lee and Don will then put final versions of the Unit scene examples in the X3D Basic archives, which will be placed online at http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/Units


3. Dr. Kwan-hee Yoo presented detailed work on medical visualization that took advantage of projected texture mapping (PTM) techniques. Slides, images and a published paper were made available. These were also presented at the previous SC24 meeting last June in London. These are definitely of interest to the Medical Working Group.

A demo showed a camera (shown as a ball) projecting an image onto various objects in a scene. The code utilizes GPU capabilities and has also been shown previously. He has been considering how to integrate this work into an X3D player codebase. The code is written in C++ using OpenGL in open source.

Can the images being used to wrap textures around polygonal human-organ cylinders be captured and adapted from orthoscopic cameras? Answer: yes.

PTM is mappable as another type of X3DTextureNode and X3DTexture3DNode. It is applied within Shape(s) to corresponding geometry, and so PTM is both well scoped (i.e. not like a virtual light) and scalable (i.e. through DEF/USE copies for each corresponding geometry).

Even though there is not yet an X3D player that supports the PTM proposal, it is not too soon to create examples in X3D with corresponding screen snapshots and videos of what the results should look like. Kwanhee Yoo will work with Don to create those examples. Don will also add them to the draft X3D v3.3 DOCTYPE/schema and provide support in X3D-Edit for scene authoring and tool launching.

Extension of the PTM techniques to medical applications is an important advance that requires further attention of the X3D and Medical working groups. PTM is on the list of planned additions to the X3D v3.3 spec. Hopefully seeing more examples, especially medical examples, will help to advance this important work.

Anita, we should also reach out to other companies that have tried to apply these techniques separately from Web3D/X3D. Is there a market survey of such capabilities? Is there a conference that supports it? Hopefully the Medical Working Group can answer these questions.


4. Dr. Gun Lee presented an update on his work in Mixed Reality (MR) which spans the spectrum from - Real environments (real world) - Augmented Reality (AR) - Augmented Virtuality (AV) - Virtual Environments (VE)

Many AR applications are now being distributed over the Internet with commercial and marketing tie-ins. There are effectively no standards in this area. There are some user groups for popular software (for example AR Toolkit) but there do not appear to be any standardization efforts. X3D and VRML are used by AR loaders, as are Collada and other formats. Device setup is often closely tied to hardware drivers and specific operating systems or specific codebases, making portability and interoperability difficult. Together this makes a good rationale for use of X3D to implement AR capabilities.

He has done much work in this area, summarized in the slideset. Specific X3D extensions include - LiveCamera node - Background and/or BackgroundTexture node modifications - LiveViewpoint

We talked about different types of cameras (planar/cylindrical/spherical images) that might be used. The options probably deserve further analysis as new products and image-processing techniques become widely available.

Wondering whether a combination of Background/TextureBackground plus a simple Billboard holding a 6-sided IndexedFaceSet might handle most combinations of interest? I suspect that there is sufficient generality in these already-existing nodes if we map and preprocess LiveCamera imagery as a X3DTexture node correctly. In other words, we do not want to create new nodes or different solutions for X3D if a good adaptation of existing functionality can be found. If there are many variations in the X3D nodeset, then it becomes very difficult for browsers to implement everything correctly. A tradeoff for a new node might be considered acceptable if it greatly simplifies work for authors, without hurting browser builders. "Less is more."

Of course these are not design decisions being written here, rather they are design guidelines that help new technology eventually get approved as X3D additions.

Gun Lee also pointed out that Layers might also be of use, particularly for display in an immersive multi-sided environment like a CAVE. Also worth exploring. (Unfortunately, Layer/Layout support is not yet great by X3D players, this is a prerequisite area for implementation/evaluation before approving X3D v3.3). Currently implemented support is maintained at http://www.web3d.org/x3d/wiki/index.php/Player_support_for_X3D_components

We talked for some time about whether a LiveViewpoint node might need both projection matrix and rotation. Perhaps projection matrix is not needed? Usually only browsers do matrices, and a camera input likely only provide orientation (not projection matrix) and an author might then display the moving texture onto a properly sized, oriented and registered quadrilateral within the scene. Something to consider.

Going forward, some suggestions:

Wondering about consistency of this work with other approaches proposed by Fraunhofer (and perhaps others) in past Web3D Symposium proceedings?

Wondering if there are any overlapping goals or capabilities defined in the Projective Texture Mapping (PTM) work? There are some similar themes, maybe a small amount of co-design might be productive. Whether the result is yes or no, the answer is interesting because it helps us to convince others that the most distilled and effective recommendations have been achieved.

Another effort that needs to be better documented is how various browsers handle different devices. It is a tradeoff for how much detail is needed, with details usually handled by browsers.

We should try to compare your nodes to the Camera nodes proposed by NPS at the Web3D 2009 Symposium. http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/development/ then Camera Examples paper also provided

Wondering if you had looked at relative difficulty in implementing these by others. One approach is to build a ProtoDeclare that includes a Script (and perhaps some native hardware-driver code) to simplify the construction of alternative implementations.

We discussed how the path to resolve all of these various combinations might be to create use cases, with corresponding X3D examples, that show how to use these nodes correctly. If any credible use case cannot be shown with the X3D extensions, then the challenges are not yet properly solved. Once we are close, then codebase variations to refine the final result are usually not too complex.

And so, it also appears as if some X3D example scenes, with corresponding snapshots or videos, might also be of use here.

Finally, once again, the X3D group is being presented with some powerful new capabilities that are worth refining and considering for inclusion in X3D v3.3.

Of related interest: "Web3D to Showcase X3D at the AR DevCamp" article at http://www.web3d.org/news/permalink/web3d-to-showcase-x3d-at-the-ar-devcamp

The first Augmented Reality Development Camp (AR DevCamp) will be held > on Saturday December 5, 2009 at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View CA and > simultaneously in New York City and around the world! > After nearly 20 years in the research labs, Augmented Reality is taking > shape as one of the next major waves of Internet innovation, overlaying > and infusing the physical world with digital media, information and > experiences. AR must be fundamentally open, interoperable, extensible, > and accessible to all, so that it can create the kinds of opportunities > for expressiveness, communication, business and social good on the web > and Internet today. As one step towards this goal of an Open AR web, > the AR DevCamp 1.0, will have a full day of technical sessions and > hacking opportunities in an open format, BarCamp style. For more > information about this camp please visit www.ardevcamp.org. > > Web3D Consortium will be showcasing their open standards X3D > implementations for Augmented Reality at this camp. Join us and see > how you can use X3D today for your Augmentent Reality needs.


5. Dr. Byounghyun Yoo presented updates on use of X3D Earth to provide a digital globe infrastructure. This work explains and continues to extend many achievements he accomplished while working as a postdoctoral researcher and then Web3D Fellow while at NPS 2007-2008.

http://web3d.org/about/fellowship

Particular highlights of this talk show how the X3D Earth effort meet the larger requirements of a Digital Earth infrastructure proposed by Al Gore a decade ago, overcoming limitations on multiplicity, interoperability, openness and equity that constrain other geobrowsers.

The visual-debugging video that showed artificial tiling algorithms is very powerful and has influenced us to add author-visualization assists for various nodes wherever possible in the X3D-Edit tool.


6. Dr. Don Brutzman presented 3 talks on the following topics

- X3D progress and prospects 2009 - HTML5 and X3D: presented at World Wide WEb Consortium (W2C) Technical Plenary and Advisory Committee (TPAC) November 2009 - X3D-Edit Update: continued improvements in authoring X3D


7. Pranveer Singh KAIST presented his progress in Parametric Macro translation of CAD files into a neutral XML file format which captures the CAD authoring history of model creation. The results then go to KAIST's Transcad (which licenses ACIS and HOOPS) to create facet data, and then through various open-source polygon reduction tools (TETGEN and MeshLab) to produce X3D.

Are there open-source alternatives to ACIS or HOOPS? Apparently not. However, if the X3D boundary represenation (B-Rep) specification were released, the neutral XML file might directly produce X3D, which can then be decimated and cleaned up.

Of further interest is that if the final results are in X3D B-rep form, a reverse translation might be possible back into the neutral XML parametric-macro format, which could be further run in reverse to regenerate CAD files.

The polygon refactoring and reduction steps using TETGEN and MeshLab are fairly automatic using Pranveer's tool, which he demonstrated. This can be released and is likely of broader interest.

This is important work which looks increasingly important with each successful improvement. I think that the X3D CAD working group will be well advised to consider this as an extension to the X3D CAD Component which will unlock X3D and a variety of CAD formats, perhaps even bidirectionally.


8. Dr. Kwan-hee Yoo presented conceptual ideas on medical visualization that focused on 2D and 3D visualizations, particularly with respect to how X3D might work well with the DICOM standard.

We looked at the Medical Working Group proposed specification changes:

http://www.web3d.org/membership/login/memberwiki/index.php/X3D_v3.3_Specification_Changes#Medical_working_group - MedicalInterchange component - Texturing3D component additions - Volume rendering - Annotation component

Kwan-Hee's slides might help make an excellent justification for the MedicalInterchange component.

He will look at these changes to see if they can express his exemplars.

We hope to schedule a future teleconference with Medical Working Group members on these topics.


9. Dr. Kwan-hee Yoo presented further conceptual ideas on the potential benefits of digital textbooks utilizing X3D. He gave an digital textbook demo example with his slides based on the Microsoft WPF format. He also listed a set if functions that could be used in this application area.

He then gave an X3D demo that illustrated the use of many of these functional areas: page turning, book rotation, zooming. The source code was provided. Other examples included X3D mixing of Korean text, imagery, 3D TouchSensors and video. BS Contact did an excellent job on all functions, though Korean text characters appeared to be rendered as individual images (rather than geometry) and so was not always clear.

He is also looking at SVG possibilities, which has also been proposed: http://www.web3d.org/membership/login/memberwiki/index.php/X3D_v3.3_Specification_Changes#SvgTexture_node

Some other e-book info is online at http://www.free-ebooks-download.org/free-ebook/dotnet/Framework/ http://publishing.ebookmall.com/information/formats.htm

We also talked about how further interoperation with HTML5, and thus SVG and MathML, particularly for cross-linking via event passing, will greatly facilitate creation of these new multimedia applications as deployable Web content/applications.

Perhaps the Web Fonts effort in W3C is also becoming of common interest since that might help browser companies improve their font support, sometimes "for free" if they are operating as a plugin with a browser that provides such fonts. http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts


10. Dr. Yong-Sang Cho provided an introduction presentation for the IMS Global Learning Consortium, online at http://www.imsglobal.org

Lots of excellent detail in the slides.

Learning systems of interest include open-source Sakai and Moodle. http://sakaiproject.org http://moodle.org

They are interested in how X3D might fit into these standards and best practices relating to learning management systems. Another common interest is the use of X3D with respect to accessibility (for access-limited systems).

Since the _X3D for Web Authors_ course is online with slides and examples and video, perhaps the course material might be moved into Sakai (now in use at NPS) for creating a full-capability course that is not only about X3D multimedia, but also using X3D multimedia as part of the learning management system (LMS).

This is an extremely important imperative with W3C WAI (mentioned earlier), IMS and Web3D. We will discuss it further in tomorrow's meeting.


11. Dr. Chung-weon Oh presented on Standardization of Web3D GIS. He discussed a wide variety of initiatives going on in many different standards-related organizations.

There was some interest in SEDRIS standards. Of interest is that there is a further proposed extension to X3D to match SEDRIS capabilities. http://www.igraphics.com/Standards http://www.igraphics.com/Standards/EnhancedGeospatialComponent_2007_10_30

Interestingly, members of our X3D Earth Working Group are meeting with members of the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) tomorrow in San Francisco. We recently renewed our Liaison Agreement. Our primary representative is Mike McCann of MBARI who is also cochair of the X3D Earth Working Group.


12. It is clear that the Korea Group is able to proceed as fast or faster than many of the other players in Web3D Consortium. It would be great if more partnerships were established with existing or new) members to take advantage of their excellent progress, to mutual benefit. Suggestions and direct discussions are most welcome.

A good approach for getting the Korean Chapter proposals into X3D v3.3: - continue using the wiki to get to clarity on each technical approach - once mature, turn it into formal specification prose (like the Medical example)

Links will be announced soon for the presentations given today. Further comments are welcome on these minutes for audience questions.

There was a tremendous and amazing amount of progress today. Looking forward to further dialog and process.

all the best, Don -- Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman@nps.edu Watkins 270 MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA work +1.831.656.2149 X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman


Consortium mailing list Consortium@web3d.org http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/consortium_web3d.org


December 8, 2009

minutes from Web3D Korea chapter meeting, day 2

Continuation from yesterday.


13. We had a second productive meeting of the Web3D Korea chapter in Seoul Korea during the morning of Tuesday 8 December.

Attendees:

Dr. Myeong Won Lee, Suwon University, Chapter organizer

Dr. Kwan-hee Yoo, Chungbuk National University

JungSeop Jung, Chapter secretary, Korea Standards Association (KSA)

JinSang Hwang, PartDB Co., Ltd.

Dr. Yong-Sang Cho, Korea Education and Research Information Service (KERIS) Sang Won Ghyme, Senior Researcher, Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI)

Dr. Don Brutzman, Naval Postgraduate School (NPS) and member Web3D Consortium Board of Directors (BoD)

Minutes recorded by myself with periodic detailed review by the group.


14. H-Anim. Myeong-Won Lee presented her updated slideset for H-Anim Motion Data capture. Sang Won Ghyme collaborated on this effort, ETRI has 2 motion capture systems (Motion Analysis for HTR data and VICON for BVH data). Good results, as before.

There is alternative proposal for recording and playing back motion data in H-Anim scenes. NPS reference: multiple examples good point of comparison not standard, just a proposal with implementation example http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimBehaviorPrototypes.html http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimBehaviorPrototypes.x3d http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/Web3D2007BlendedBehaviorsChangeableBodies.pdf http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/ApaydinThesis.pdf

can we please compare the two approaches? can we compare the two approaches to regular specification-compliant use of simple OrientationInterpolators, then list pros/cons?

We have an H-Anim working group + mailing list not much activity, but it does exist cochairs: Keith Victor (Vivaty) and Joe Williams good place to post your examples

We should look at H-Anim working group charter and see if we can resume worthwhile activity

BVH file format Most popular mocap data format Reference: online? Licensing: royalty free? no license? does it matter? Do any import/export converters exist for BVH?

For your example, is the BVH data always defined for the same body joints or can the body joints vary? If always the same, then we will always have same mapping to HAnim If not always the same, then always need to define a unique mapping

Apparently naming and number of joints in BVH file can vary with each example. So maybe we need to define a conversion mapping from an arbitrary BVH file to whatever the X3D motion capture data nodes are.

Some other technical goals: - How effective is .x3db compression on mocap data? This should be evaluated and documented online. - Should we consider some further compression algorithms for behavior interpolator smoothing and predictive filtering? This might greatly reduce the size of recorded data - How to stream such data? This is an important new application area that may enable good capabilities for X3D that are already common in other virtual-world technologies. Sang Won has a streaming presentation from past meetings that will also be provided online.

In general there are three choices for new technology: - no change, multiple diverse ad hoc solutions - if there are common solutions, define a "best practice" and help make it easy with tool support - specify, implement, evaluate a specification change

Suggested path forward: - ask working group to resume looking at the behavior capture/playback problem? - invite other people to participate - look for other possible formats of interest, especially pay attention to any licensing restrictions - probably discussion is private H-Anim working-group members only - consider holding a workshop at Web3D 2010, or Call for Contributions to ensure that we can evaluate all candidate technologies

Keith Victor has also proposed flexibility in H-Anim naming and structures. We need to decide if these proposals must proceed one at a time, or if they can proceed in parallel. The main problem is that the working group has been stalled for a long time... maybe if we can state the new goals clearly, and decide on the order to pursue them, then new work might actually be accomplished. If we cannot show sufficient participation or consensus, then these will simply remain as proposals and the H-Anim specification will not change.

I think this kind of effort is probably long overdue, and a good candidate for group work in 2010. If the interested participants are in California and Korea, then we might resume working group teleconferences in the afternoon California time (morning Korea time) so that everyone can participate directly.

Working group public description: http://www.web3d.org/x3d/workgroups/h-anim no charter found there - it should be online, but isn't  :(

Mailing list subscription http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/h-anim_web3d.org

Mailing list archive is broken: http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/h-anim_web3d.org last apparent entry was March 2009 :(

Len Daly: can you please restore the email archive?

Other working group problems: No charter found - this is required (if we don't have any goals, then we can't succeed) Working group member directory is completely unorganized Maybe if someone volunteered to fix H-Anim website, that would help?

Working groups that succeed follow these steps. Working groups that are not organized will fail or dissolve.


15. E-Learning working group proposal by Yong-Sang Cho and Kwan-hee Yoo

There were many good ideas and discussion points from yesterday's presentation. Dr. Cho and Kwan-hee Yoo would like to propose that we consider a new working group on E-Learning.

Motivations: - support use of X3D within e-learning applications - help with Web accessibility for people with impaired access - help participants get funding support for effective work - Participate with other related organizations: IMS, W3C WAI, others - Produce a training course or other examples that can be further improved or repeated successfully - Document and develop use cases and best practices for such work - Existing capabilities in X3D already seems sufficient to proceed, no new technology seems to be needed at this point

Charter goals:

- if we can get a sufficient number of people involved, usually a face-to-face meeting (or maybe a teleconference) can get the goals precisely stated

Candidate working group cochairs, secretary:

- who might be interested?

Organization liaisons:

IMS: Yong-Sang Cho

W3C WAI: Don Brutzman

ADL SCORM: ____

Next steps:

- Start a public wiki page to capture and discuss these points - Schedule and publicize a teleconference/videoconference meeting - Ask our Web3D Executive Director Anita Havele for her thoughts and contributions on how to best go forward - A good organizing activity might be to prepare a Call for Participation and publicize it, so that the "critical mass" of sufficient people can join in order to achieve success together

This is different from many of our other technical working groups, and this seems like it has the potential to be very energizing.


16. Myeong Won Lee would like to propose a Mobile working group.

She has already planned to hold a study for mobile 3D applications. - Study group workshop planned for SC24 meeting late June 2010 - Call for participation needs to be announced on Web3D home page (please work with Anita to do this) - Other publicity is also recommended

I think that we should dedicate one of the X3D working group meetings to discuss whether a separate Mobile working group is really needed. It is possible that this could simply proceed as part of main X3D group.

Candidate goals: - create a Mobile Profile, if needed (perhaps equal to Interactive Profile + Script and a few other nodes) - Build exemplars - Share implementation experiences - Create special X3D Earth archive suitable for mobile use

Could we create a wiki page to begin capturing and organizing these ideas?

After one or two meetings, if all this is documented, it will probably be clear whether a separate working group is needed. Asking the online community about this is a good way to assess people's interest and potential involvement.


17. New working groups.

The process is described at http://www.web3d.org/x3d/workgroups

A charter is important for each group. Anita, can we confirm that each group has an active charter?

I believe Alan Hudson has our guidelines for "how to start a new working group." Not found... can we get those publicized on the above website page?


18. SIGGRAPH ASIA 2010 in Seoul Korea, 7-10 December 2010.

We discussed possible activities by Web3D Korea Chapter next year.

No website yet. SIGGRAPH ASIA 2009 online at http://www.siggraph.org/asia2009

Some initial ideas: - Possible meeting opportunity for Web3D Korea Chapter, open to public, describing the group's many activities

- Booth on exhibition floor

- Can we get funding for Web3D Executive Director to attend

- Perhaps one or more tutorials?

- Perhaps a panel discussion?

- Perhaps a public X3D Showcase demonstration


all the best, Don -- Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman@nps.edu Watkins 270 MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA work +1.831.656.2149 X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman


X3d mailing list X3d@web3d.org http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org


December 8, 2009

Revised last section


18. SIGGRAPH ASIA 2010 in Seoul Korea, 7-10 December 2010.

We discussed possible activities by Web3D Korea Chapter next year.

No website yet. SIGGRAPH ASIA 2009 online at http://www.siggraph.org/asia2009

Some initial ideas:

- Possible meeting opportunity for Web3D Korea Chapter, open to public, describing the group's many activities

- Booth on exhibition floor

- Can we get funding for Web3D Executive Director to attend

- Perhaps one or more tutorials?

- Perhaps a panel discussion?

- A refreshed X3D Showcase DVD with much new content, perhaps enough copies for all SIGGRAPH ASIA 2010 attendees?

- Perhaps a public X3D Plugfest public demonstration of X3D Players and cool content, maybe focusing on Korea chapter activities (Units, PTM, medical, mixed reality, H-Anim, e-learning, mobile) http://www.web3d.org/x3d/wiki/index.php/X3D_Plugfest

It is good to think about this now so that all these many great initiatives can achieve good results and get good exposure.

Don will be at SIGGRAPH ASIA in Yokohama next week, and can investigate the feasibility of any questions that might arise.

This will be the subject of further discussion by the chapter, probably in January or February.


Myeong Won (or someone) will prepare a wiki page that collects all these minutes together with the slidesets.

I will now put my hands in a bucket of cold water to cool back down.

Kam-sa ham-nida (thank you) everyone!

all the best, Don -- Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman@nps.edu Watkins 270 MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA work +1.831.656.2149 X3D, virtual worlds, underwater robots, XMSF http://web.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman


Korea-chapter mailing list Korea-chapter@web3d.org http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/korea-chapter_web3d.org