From brutzman at nps.edu  Tue Nov  1 05:31:00 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 12:31:00 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] =?windows-1252?q?WebXR_Augmented_Reality_Module_=96?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_Level_1=2C_request_for_implementer_feedback?=
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB4884AF5D55EEA72F9C188F41C4369@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Wondering if X_ITE, X3DOM and other X3D implementations are looking at WebXR
AR Module?  All feedback welcome.

 

The X3D Working Group intends to review these documents and all implementer
feedback, preparing a response for Web3D Consortium Board submission W3C
itself during our regular Friday meeting 25 NOV 2022.

 

*	W3C INVITES IMPLEMENTATIONS OF WEBXR AUGMENTED REALITY MODULE.
Immersive Web Working Group invites implementations of new Candidate
Recommendation WebXR Augmented Reality Module - Level 1, which expands WebXR
Device API with functionality on AR hardware.
*	https://w3.org/blog/news/archives/9735
*	https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1587406812231311360

 

Candidate and draft recommendations follow.

 

*	WebXR Augmented Reality Module - Level 1, Candidate Recommendation
*	https://www.w3.org/TR/2022/CR-webxr-ar-module-1-20221101

 

*	WebXR Device API, W3C Candidate Recommendation Draft, 24 August 2022
*	https://www.w3.org/TR/webxr

 

*	W3C Immersive Web Working Group
*	https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/immersive-web

 

Have fun with X3D and WebXR!  8)

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 05:50:53 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 07:50:53 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DJSONLD bugs?
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnvhybZEa9HOL0hs+S_eYKbf6vsdh-h7_xZxR9ze1YZTA@mail.gmail.com>

I have been noticing some comments about buggy code.   Where are the bug
reports?

Thanks!

John
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 06:09:17 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 08:09:17 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DCanvas vs x3d-canvas, X_ITE
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>

I saw an X3DJSONLD web console log, stating:

Use of <X3DCanvas> element is deprecated, please use <x3d-canvas> element
instead.

This misuse of tag is due to a new version of X_ITE.  X3DJSONLD references
the latest x_ite.

Is this a development version report, or production release of X_ITE?

I am currently using:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="
https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.css"/>
<script type="text/javascript" src="
https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.min.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="
https://raw.githack.com/andreasplesch/x_ite_dom/master/release/x_ite_dom.1.3.js
"></script>



FYI to people using X3DJSONLD (the web app).  I had not expected this.

Bug reports to X3DJSONLD at:


John
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 06:10:13 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 08:10:13 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DCanvas vs x3d-canvas, X_ITE
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnfH9=NBQ3WiWK7Jx1zkkPKKrEemweTykRE48qMUv+5Eg@mail.gmail.com>

Bug reports to:

Issues ? coderextreme/X3DJSONLD (github.com)
<https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/issues>

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 8:09 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> I saw an X3DJSONLD web console log, stating:
>
> Use of <X3DCanvas> element is deprecated, please use <x3d-canvas> element
> instead.
>
> This misuse of tag is due to a new version of X_ITE.  X3DJSONLD references
> the latest x_ite.
>
> Is this a development version report, or production release of X_ITE?
>
> I am currently using:
>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="
> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.css"/>
> <script type="text/javascript" src="
> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.min.js">
> </script>
> <script type="text/javascript" src="
> https://raw.githack.com/andreasplesch/x_ite_dom/master/release/x_ite_dom.1.3.js
> "></script>
>
>
>
> FYI to people using X3DJSONLD (the web app).  I had not expected this.
>
> Bug reports to X3DJSONLD at:
>
>
> John
>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 07:24:06 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 09:24:06 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DCanvas vs x3d-canvas, X_ITE
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEkYA-cQDiapdnb703gy4hst_M-aTRFTcfMq8tE+4w=s3Q@mail.gmail.com>

X3DJSONLD seems to work on localhost (you'll have to use firefox):

https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples.html
https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples2.html
https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples3.html
https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x3domexamples.html

Check out other X_ITE and X3DOM examples in the same folder.

You may have to convert x3d examples over to JSON from Holger's X3D Library.

There may be some issues with shaders.

Contributions to bug finding welcome.


Source code:

https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD

We can do a Zoom conference if people want to deploy to other things
besides Firefox!   I haven't tried that.

My hands are bombed out.   Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.


On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 8:09 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> I saw an X3DJSONLD web console log, stating:
>
> Use of <X3DCanvas> element is deprecated, please use <x3d-canvas> element
> instead.
>
> This misuse of tag is due to a new version of X_ITE.  X3DJSONLD references
> the latest x_ite.
>
> Is this a development version report, or production release of X_ITE?
>
> I am currently using:
>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="
> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.css"/>
> <script type="text/javascript" src="
> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.min.js">
> </script>
> <script type="text/javascript" src="
> https://raw.githack.com/andreasplesch/x_ite_dom/master/release/x_ite_dom.1.3.js
> "></script>
>
>
>
> FYI to people using X3DJSONLD (the web app).  I had not expected this.
>
> Bug reports to X3DJSONLD at:
>
>
> John
>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 07:37:18 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 09:37:18 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] saxon JS,
 version 2.3 deprecated. Will try to update X3DJSONLD soon
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEmKn9fxukwtDqKW=1k_PeqzCakij5N+KnX8zDyULmfRcQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be updating SaxonJS to version 2.5, probably in a couple of days.  I
would appreciate that people familiar with X3dToVrml97.xslt stylesheet or
XML to VRML conversion be available for questions (can we coordinate?).  I
don't know any VRML.

My hands are basically blown.

Thanks!

John
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 07:42:20 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 09:42:20 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DCanvas vs x3d-canvas, X_ITE
In-Reply-To: <31E095F6-0BFE-4BFD-90C5-1E1804D40B4A@gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEnprMisqLPXJRtPbJMs9YUHP4EXmFiRZD=be8ziP5WAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkYA-cQDiapdnb703gy4hst_M-aTRFTcfMq8tE+4w=s3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <31E095F6-0BFE-4BFD-90C5-1E1804D40B4A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEknfuBehS2vKFUv8v=Z-yMW18Nwub7VWEJE5q-LXZJTiw@mail.gmail.com>

I had a problem with my JSON Library files not being generated/checked in.
I can try the old X3DCanvas if you want me to retry.

I'm pretty happy, minus JSON files in production.

John

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 9:33 AM Holger Seelig <holger.seelig at gmail.com>
wrote:

> With version 6.0.0, X_ITE uses the new element name <x3d-canvas>,
> lowercase and with dash. Because X_ITE uses the Custom Element API from
> JavaScript now. This has the advantages that the element can be created
> with document.createElement, and is then immediately ready to use :).
>
> For compatibility the old name can still be used, but we encourage all
> users to update to the new tag name.
>
> Best regards,
> Holger
>
> Am 01.11.2022 um 15:24 schrieb John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>:
>
> X3DJSONLD seems to work on localhost (you'll have to use firefox):
>
> https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples.html
> https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples2.html
> https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x_iteexamples3.html
> https://localhost:3000/src/main/html/x3domexamples.html
>
> Check out other X_ITE and X3DOM examples in the same folder.
>
> You may have to convert x3d examples over to JSON from Holger's X3D
> Library.
>
> There may be some issues with shaders.
>
> Contributions to bug finding welcome.
>
>
> Source code:
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD
>
> We can do a Zoom conference if people want to deploy to other things
> besides Firefox!   I haven't tried that.
>
> My hands are bombed out.   Sorry I didn't get to this earlier.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 8:09 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I saw an X3DJSONLD web console log, stating:
>>
>> Use of <X3DCanvas> element is deprecated, please use <x3d-canvas> element
>> instead.
>>
>> This misuse of tag is due to a new version of X_ITE.  X3DJSONLD
>> references the latest x_ite.
>>
>> Is this a development version report, or production release of X_ITE?
>>
>> I am currently using:
>>
>> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="
>> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.css"/>
>> <script type="text/javascript" src="
>> https://create3000.github.io/code/x_ite/latest/dist/x_ite.min.js">
>> </script>
>> <script type="text/javascript" src="
>> https://raw.githack.com/andreasplesch/x_ite_dom/master/release/x_ite_dom.1.3.js
>> "></script>
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI to people using X3DJSONLD (the web app).  I had not expected this.
>>
>> Bug reports to X3DJSONLD at:
>>
>>
>> John
>>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>
>
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From holger.seelig at yahoo.de  Tue Nov  1 08:03:34 2022
From: holger.seelig at yahoo.de (Holger Seelig)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 16:03:34 +0100
Subject: [x3d-public] X3DCanvas vs x3d-canvas, X_ITE
References: <5AEC1500-4599-4227-9DA9-D014BB175C7C.ref@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <5AEC1500-4599-4227-9DA9-D014BB175C7C@yahoo.de>

With version 6.0.0, X_ITE uses the new element name <x3d-canvas>, lowercase and with dash. Because X_ITE uses the Custom Element API from JavaScript now. This has the advantages that the element can be created with document.createElement, and is then immediately ready to use :). Other advantage is that the CSS file must not be included anymore.

For compatibility the old name can still be used, but we encourage all users to update to the new tag name.

Best regards,
Holger



From joedwil at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  2 11:08:31 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 11:08:31 -0700
Subject: [x3d-public] BVH tasks. (Non-Blender BVH loaders/parsers)
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEkakHe4=n6nZ+sU8MNZ7ekS6HxNHYp-uUdTTFTwZwaJbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEmsSvR6Z6fNxkvkTd6stJHzerxmcMAQ=o_yU8NajnFeqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UE=Prz8h5OF5mGMv-Dj8P8eZJvMT29pH92VJBhASJ7=iyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkakHe4=n6nZ+sU8MNZ7ekS6HxNHYp-uUdTTFTwZwaJbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1667412558.24356.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


The real contribution is getting the BCH data into X3D loa3 skeleton and x3d timer/interpolator form. We probably have to first convert the BVH skeleton into Hanim loa4, then produce the timer, keytimes and keyframe data from bvh to x3d. This is advisable because the video framerate bvh animations will be practically useless and very cumbersome to use directly and will probably be incomplete for your playback skeleton performance. Thus, you will need to edit and add to any animation extracted this way. That is why you want the x3d user code instead of the BVH data file. 

Also, the main idea of alI this, to me, is that you have lyour personal skeleton that you are working with and that, instead of rotating some joints yourself, you want to import some animation data using the unregulated bvh transport file forms. So, first, you may wish to figure out what is the basic skeleton being driven by the data. If the data was not based on a reasonable skeleton that can be reborn as x3d Hanim loa4 that was defined in some known default before animation pose, facing +z, +y up and +x left then you really do not know what you will harvest. Next, if the skeleton is reasonable then the data may be usable except that it is resolved at some video frame rate that results in just silly looking x3d. This is because a bvh to video renderer can be simple because it only does fixed fps. 

Anyway, having an x3d player that can directly play a bvh file is interesting as a tool used for screening and evaluating usefulness of a particular animation, however it does x3d author no good until it gets hooked up to x3d skeleton definition and realtime animation style. 
Thanks, 
Joe

From: John Carlson
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 2:59 PM
To: Andreas Plesch; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV); Holger Seelig; Nicholas Polys; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] BVH tasks. (Non-Blender BVH loaders/parsers)

I suggest we start a new project, BVH to DOM document ?BVHParser.ts? in Typescript which can be converted to most JavaScript versions. ? Then:

Add BVHParser.ts ?to X3DOM.

Add BVHParser.ts to X_ITE.

So we?re following along the path that X3DJSONLD followed, first develop a capability in ?isolation?, then integrate into browsers.

We won?t be converting over a whole project to use TypeScript so risk is low.

We should probably start with the BVH loader in three.js unless there?s licensing issues.? Hopefully this will provide us with some kind of metric to measure our success.

This sounds like something pretty reasonable which i can apply existing skill to.

John?
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:19 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
We?ll need to consider the steps for x3d.py

Import BVH
Export python (like the x3djsonld.py).

It would be cool if we could produce a dict structure that mirrored the JSON load, or JSON.

Then further work on x3djsonld.py is needed.

OR

Export XML, and use X3DJSAIL to produce python.

John

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 3:47 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
What?s next on the BVH task list?

?
? Adapting X3D-Edit (BVH?) conversion source to become part of X3DJSONLD, X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL (x3d.py) libraries
?
What sources in X3D-Edit?? I don?t know what steps are required to convert BVH-to-X3D.? Could you provide a kind of UML Sequence Diagram, or a function name to call? ? I might be able to work it down from the GUI button.? Can you assist, Terry? ? I did find a couple of files with Bvh in file name, but I haven?t opened X3D-Edit 4 inside latest version.

I can work on a JavaScript port if given a general direction as to how the BVH-to-X3D works in X3D-Edit.

Maybe we should pause on emails?? I?ve got chores.? I?d rather see a release than an email.

I know you provided many HTML links ?? File links would be better at this point. ? If they start with x3d/tools/X3D-Edit4.0 that would be easy to understand.

I will go back through emails.

John?

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 3:13 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
I?m not working with Blender.? That is an X3D-Public topic.
?
When we have an update to X3D-Edit we will announce it.? Providing the link in the email helps the email archives be less confusing.
?
Thanks.
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 1:09 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Cc: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BVH tasks, BVH to X3D (Blender)
?
Michalis? suggestion was to use Blender to do BVH to X3D conversion, ?I suggested a modifying a Blender python BVH to FBX script, which did scraping from the cgspeed, i think. ? I don?t think we need to do the scraping any more. ? Please be patient as i have chores.
?
It should be easy to create a blender script to convert BVH to X3D once the files are downloaded, but can script unpack from cgspeed. ? Doesn?t Blender have a macro capability?
?
When should i test the X3D-Edit converter again?? I saw that you were close to another release.
?
John
?
?
?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 10:49 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
Hi John, thanks for your note.
?
First and foremost: please always take care of yourself.? No heroic actions needed, we are ?playing the long game? here.

Next: let?s do one thing at a time, and do it well.
?
Suggestion:? tracking down the BVH file used in the three.js example, then seeing how well X3D-Edit importer works, would be great.
?
If Michalis has a BVH import, then let?s do it twice and compare/improve each conversion.
?
Doing that single comparison example would be important.? We can document successes, and sources, and motivate further work (for example, then updating Blender export).
?
I think Joe Williams and Nicholas Polys will both be willing to help us look at details and any unforeseen difficulties.
?
Thanks for considering this possibility.
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 3:25 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
Subject: BVH tasks, joining forces, vim plugin
?
I guess at this point, I?d like to have at least one user/builder/cm volunteering to at least test what i am doing before starting anything.
?
In other words, I?d like to have my own reasons for starting down this BVH path.? Surprisingly enough, I don?t use my code on a day to day basis. ? I have a grand scheme to build some creator software, ultimately expanding beyond X3D.? Maybe i should just team up with another creator suite instead of doing my own thing.
?
Either a happy or unhappy user would be great.
?
Without that commitment, there?s no reason to put my health at risk.
?
Apparently view3dscene/castle engine has a way to save and load JSON (not glTF?). ? I don?t know if ?Michalis uses JSON schema, or has his own internal checking?
?
I am now a castle engine subscriber. ? I?m wondering how to produce Pascal SAI output, so i can test WASM.
?
How is X3d-Edit conversion source different? ? More advanced?? You just want the BVH part transferred to other codes, including rewriting for EcmaScript and x3d.py?
?
It sounds like you desire more extensive tests for BVH? ? Or just eyeballing it?
?
It sounds like we are extending beyond XML and JSON into more generic parsing. ? Is now the time to switch to ANTLR or Daffodil?? I?m not sure of support.
?
Do you want me to do visual comparison of the three.js BVH file?
?
What do you think about an X3D plugin for ?vIm/nvim/neovim for ?JSON?? How can vim support 3D graphics in alacritty and kitty?
?
How can i as a creator best help my needs as a creator, and secondly, help others?
?
Is there a need for standards implementation for a metaverse creator suite? ? Surely people will only drop into BVH on extremely rare occasions? ? Would some kind of motion editing tool would be helpful?
?
I?m always concerned about bradypnea/hypopnea making my life worse.
?
John
?
On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 11:11 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
Glad you are progressing John.? As ever, thanks for helpful investigations.
?
Interesting possibilities that could be published for others to use, long-term:
? Confirming correctness of X3D-Edit BVH conversion, using same BVH file as the three.js example would be great
? Adapting X3D-Edit conversion source to become part of X3DJSONLD, X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL (x3d.py) libraries
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 5:21 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Adding a BVH file to DOM document conversion which can be loaded with X3DJSAIL sounds intriguing.
?
Once we have DOM, many possibilities abound.
?
After a couple of months off of desktop typing, my wrists are improving.? Also, I think an alternate sleeping position helped. Continued work on breathing is indicated.? I'm happy to see progress after 35 years!? Someone up there is answering prayer!
?
I?m hoping that adding more physical exertion will help cognitive symptoms. ? We carried a wooden table with 4 chairs upstairs at my in laws, played some ping pong and collected leaves last week.
?
I think pur best chance is to look for freely distributable ?Bvh files. ? I?m not sure if Kinect resolution is satisfactory for BVH et al.
?
Would anyone like a translation of the Java below?? Probably creating a project for loading HAnim files into Three.js is indicated.
?
Fun!
?
John?
?
On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 1:25 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
You can find example BVH-to-X3D conversion results at
?
? X3D Example Archives: Humanoid Animation, Motion Animation
? Motion Capture (MOCAP) examples using Humanoid Animation (HAnim) models illustrates conversion from BioVision Hierarchy (BVH) files for Character animation (such as 1.bvh).
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/1.bvh
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/1.bvh.txt
?
Additional good examples welcome, we can add them to the HAnim Examples archive.? Got one?
?
I just checked the BVH converter in rejuvenated X3D-Edit and it seems to still work fine.? 8)
?
? Menu item: X3D-Edit
? https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/X3D-EditBvhImport.png
?
Adapting the X3D-Edit converter source to be part of our X3DJSONLD X3DJSAIL X3DPSAIL libraries seems like an interesting utility function to add someday.
?
? https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/tools/X3dEdit4.0/X3dEditModuleSuite/X3dSourceFilePalette/src/org/web3d/x3d/actions/conversions/BvhToX3dConversionAction.java
?
Have fun with X3D and BVH!? 8)
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 11:22 AM
To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; h-anim at web3d.org; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Hi John.? Good ideas, thanks for sharing them.
?
Once again, it appears as if all the capabilities necessary to accomplish that are defined in X3D4 with immense sets of BVH captures available out there.? Good hunting, sir.
?
? X3D4 Architecture, 26.3.4 HAnimMotion
? https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion
?
? HAnim 2.0 Part 2:? Humanoid animation (HAnim) motion data animation, 4 Concepts
? https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-2/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/Concepts.html
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 10:46 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; h-anim at web3d.org
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Hmm.? I suggest extending the BVH to include multifigure collaborative motions like dancing (think Virginia Reel) and sports.? That is, some kind of composed BVH with multiple avatars.
?
This may already be done.
?
Thanks!
?
On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
X3D Working Group meets weekly for continued advancement of the X3D4 Specifications.
?
???????? Meeting time 09-1000 pacific, each Friday
???????? https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09 
???????? https://zoom.us/j/148206572? Password 483805 
???????? https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
?
Here is a ?new? proposed strategy, trying to say crisply the many essential ideas that are well known already by active participants in the X3D community.
?
?
(draft) Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure
?
No standardized definition for ?avatars? is provided in X3D4, but?
?
???????? Many alternatives are possible, the ?X? in ?X3D? is Extensible. Vive la difference!
???????? X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.
???????? Most powerful Web3D example design to date:? Silhouette Avatars by IVN, https://ivn.net
???????? Metadata for identity, secure digital signature and even encryption is possible.
???????? Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full avatar realism remains really interesting!? Interesting progress continues on this challenge.
?
X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions are agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum.? We expect to show full matching Implementation and Evaluation using X3D, learning further what avatar designs work well.
?
?
Let?s discuss please.? All inputs and discussion welcome.
?
Corresponding Web3D member-only draft slideset available at
? Representing Metaverse Humans with Open Standards
? Humanoid Animation (HAnim) and X3D4 ISO Specification Support
? Web3D Consortium Communications Team
? https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p
?
Membership has value!
? Join the Web3D Consortium
? The Web3D Consortium is a non-profit group open to industry, academic, government and individual members.
? https://www.web3d.org/join
?
Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars!? 8)
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
x3d-public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 23:27:11 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 01:27:11 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] =?utf-8?q?3D_Author_with_web_browser=3F_What?=
 =?utf-8?b?4oCZcyBjdXJyZW50Pw==?=
Message-ID: <CAGC3UE=EQe2FV2TC=y1ic9Vt-6BQHK6LEwQkefrQOO8GUJ7h+g@mail.gmail.com>

I seem to recall using X3DJSAIL with Jupyter, or even simpler, x3d.py, but
I?m interested in X3D authoring on the web.   Which of our X3D authoring
tools run with in current web browsers?

Im guessing BS Contact has something?  Flux? There?s probably competitors
in Three.js, Babylon.js and PlayCanvas.  I?ve seen a bit in X3DOM

I?m thinking of this primarily because i want to create plans in X3D.  I?ve
seem AI story synthesis, and I?m thinking copilot may run in the web in VS
Code.

What authoring tools are available for the Metaverse?

If someone says use Notepad++, I?m going to run screaming to vim?at least
there?s a copilot plugin.
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 03:45:19 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 05:45:19 -0500
Subject: [x3d-public] A very old friend gave me hint
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEkr-owh6fKd4cJkZ0TxWsTkMJG6O-B_j69a3rbcQPspKg@mail.gmail.com>

This seems to be a way forward for me, from Jayson Gaddis:

https://youtu.be/1fKvw9vUZrc

Do you need understanding?  Follow these 4 steps.

John
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  3 05:27:43 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 05:27:43 -0700
Subject: [x3d-public] BVH tasks. (Non-Blender BVH loaders/parsers)
In-Reply-To: <202211021409.1OQib24yDc12Nv1@mx-prod13.sys.elnk.net>
References: <CAGC3UEmsSvR6Z6fNxkvkTd6stJHzerxmcMAQ=o_yU8NajnFeqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UE=Prz8h5OF5mGMv-Dj8P8eZJvMT29pH92VJBhASJ7=iyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkakHe4=n6nZ+sU8MNZ7ekS6HxNHYp-uUdTTFTwZwaJbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <202211021409.1OQib24yDc12Nv1@mx-prod13.sys.elnk.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1667478511.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


I meant always use ?standard? loa4 as target playback skeleton. 
But the main point may be that it is reasonable to test the imported bvh capture skeleton first, before considering whether the animation may be useful. 
If the imported skeleton is working with a ?standard? animation then that file stands a getter chance of working with your personal ?standard? skeleton. 
So, to analyze the imported bvh skeleton, just find the shoulders, hips and feet, figure out which way it is facing, scale the thing to human size in a human friendly space, set a good 0 0 0, set a few viewpoint locations, then try the ?standard? Run animation of Nancy or later versions with Run, Walk, Jump. This will help determine that you may have may have a reasonably configured bvh skeleton and thus, that the animation may be useful with your personal ?standard? without lots of work. 
Now, if you can see that the capture skeleton is reasonable,  it may be worthwhile to try the imported bvh animation on your personal skeleton. 
Basically, if you can?t get decent results using a simple ?standard? walk animation on the bvh capture skeleton there may be little value or at least lots of work to adapt it to your ?standard? skeleton. 

Also please note that the Hanim interface provides several fields that provide adjustments for differences between the default pose of the bvh capture skeleton and the Hanim standard default pose before animation. 

Thanks, 
Joe




From: Joseph D Williams
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 11:09 AM
To: John Carlson; Andreas Plesch; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV); Holger Seelig; Nicholas Polys; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] BVH tasks. (Non-Blender BVH loaders/parsers)


The real contribution is getting the BCH data into X3D loa3 skeleton and x3d timer/interpolator form. We probably have to first convert the BVH skeleton into Hanim loa4, then produce the timer, keytimes and keyframe data from bvh to x3d. This is advisable because the video framerate bvh animations will be practically useless and very cumbersome to use directly and will probably be incomplete for your playback skeleton performance. Thus, you will need to edit and add to any animation extracted this way. That is why you want the x3d user code instead of the BVH data file. 

Also, the main idea of alI this, to me, is that you have lyour personal skeleton that you are working with and that, instead of rotating some joints yourself, you want to import some animation data using the unregulated bvh transport file forms. So, first, you may wish to figure out what is the basic skeleton being driven by the data. If the data was not based on a reasonable skeleton that can be reborn as x3d Hanim loa4 that was defined in some known default before animation pose, facing +z, +y up and +x left then you really do not know what you will harvest. Next, if the skeleton is reasonable then the data may be usable except that it is resolved at some video frame rate that results in just silly looking x3d. This is because a bvh to video renderer can be simple because it only does fixed fps. 

Anyway, having an x3d player that can directly play a bvh file is interesting as a tool used for screening and evaluating usefulness of a particular animation, however it does x3d author no good until it gets hooked up to x3d skeleton definition and realtime animation style. 
Thanks, 
Joe

From: John Carlson
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 2:59 PM
To: Andreas Plesch; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV); Holger Seelig; Nicholas Polys; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] BVH tasks. (Non-Blender BVH loaders/parsers)

I suggest we start a new project, BVH to DOM document ?BVHParser.ts? in Typescript which can be converted to most JavaScript versions. ? Then:

Add BVHParser.ts ?to X3DOM.

Add BVHParser.ts to X_ITE.

So we?re following along the path that X3DJSONLD followed, first develop a capability in ?isolation?, then integrate into browsers.

We won?t be converting over a whole project to use TypeScript so risk is low.

We should probably start with the BVH loader in three.js unless there?s licensing issues.? Hopefully this will provide us with some kind of metric to measure our success.

This sounds like something pretty reasonable which i can apply existing skill to.

John?
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:19 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
We?ll need to consider the steps for x3d.py

Import BVH
Export python (like the x3djsonld.py).

It would be cool if we could produce a dict structure that mirrored the JSON load, or JSON.

Then further work on x3djsonld.py is needed.

OR

Export XML, and use X3DJSAIL to produce python.

John

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 3:47 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
What?s next on the BVH task list?

?
? Adapting X3D-Edit (BVH?) conversion source to become part of X3DJSONLD, X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL (x3d.py) libraries
?
What sources in X3D-Edit?? I don?t know what steps are required to convert BVH-to-X3D.? Could you provide a kind of UML Sequence Diagram, or a function name to call? ? I might be able to work it down from the GUI button.? Can you assist, Terry? ? I did find a couple of files with Bvh in file name, but I haven?t opened X3D-Edit 4 inside latest version.

I can work on a JavaScript port if given a general direction as to how the BVH-to-X3D works in X3D-Edit.

Maybe we should pause on emails?? I?ve got chores.? I?d rather see a release than an email.

I know you provided many HTML links ?? File links would be better at this point. ? If they start with x3d/tools/X3D-Edit4.0 that would be easy to understand.

I will go back through emails.

John?

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 3:13 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
I?m not working with Blender.? That is an X3D-Public topic.
?
When we have an update to X3D-Edit we will announce it.? Providing the link in the email helps the email archives be less confusing.
?
Thanks.
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 1:09 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Cc: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BVH tasks, BVH to X3D (Blender)
?
Michalis? suggestion was to use Blender to do BVH to X3D conversion, ?I suggested a modifying a Blender python BVH to FBX script, which did scraping from the cgspeed, i think. ? I don?t think we need to do the scraping any more. ? Please be patient as i have chores.
?
It should be easy to create a blender script to convert BVH to X3D once the files are downloaded, but can script unpack from cgspeed. ? Doesn?t Blender have a macro capability?
?
When should i test the X3D-Edit converter again?? I saw that you were close to another release.
?
John
?
?
?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 10:49 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
Hi John, thanks for your note.
?
First and foremost: please always take care of yourself.? No heroic actions needed, we are ?playing the long game? here.

Next: let?s do one thing at a time, and do it well.
?
Suggestion:? tracking down the BVH file used in the three.js example, then seeing how well X3D-Edit importer works, would be great.
?
If Michalis has a BVH import, then let?s do it twice and compare/improve each conversion.
?
Doing that single comparison example would be important.? We can document successes, and sources, and motivate further work (for example, then updating Blender export).
?
I think Joe Williams and Nicholas Polys will both be willing to help us look at details and any unforeseen difficulties.
?
Thanks for considering this possibility.
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 3:25 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
Subject: BVH tasks, joining forces, vim plugin
?
I guess at this point, I?d like to have at least one user/builder/cm volunteering to at least test what i am doing before starting anything.
?
In other words, I?d like to have my own reasons for starting down this BVH path.? Surprisingly enough, I don?t use my code on a day to day basis. ? I have a grand scheme to build some creator software, ultimately expanding beyond X3D.? Maybe i should just team up with another creator suite instead of doing my own thing.
?
Either a happy or unhappy user would be great.
?
Without that commitment, there?s no reason to put my health at risk.
?
Apparently view3dscene/castle engine has a way to save and load JSON (not glTF?). ? I don?t know if ?Michalis uses JSON schema, or has his own internal checking?
?
I am now a castle engine subscriber. ? I?m wondering how to produce Pascal SAI output, so i can test WASM.
?
How is X3d-Edit conversion source different? ? More advanced?? You just want the BVH part transferred to other codes, including rewriting for EcmaScript and x3d.py?
?
It sounds like you desire more extensive tests for BVH? ? Or just eyeballing it?
?
It sounds like we are extending beyond XML and JSON into more generic parsing. ? Is now the time to switch to ANTLR or Daffodil?? I?m not sure of support.
?
Do you want me to do visual comparison of the three.js BVH file?
?
What do you think about an X3D plugin for ?vIm/nvim/neovim for ?JSON?? How can vim support 3D graphics in alacritty and kitty?
?
How can i as a creator best help my needs as a creator, and secondly, help others?
?
Is there a need for standards implementation for a metaverse creator suite? ? Surely people will only drop into BVH on extremely rare occasions? ? Would some kind of motion editing tool would be helpful?
?
I?m always concerned about bradypnea/hypopnea making my life worse.
?
John
?
On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 11:11 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
Glad you are progressing John.? As ever, thanks for helpful investigations.
?
Interesting possibilities that could be published for others to use, long-term:
? Confirming correctness of X3D-Edit BVH conversion, using same BVH file as the three.js example would be great
? Adapting X3D-Edit conversion source to become part of X3DJSONLD, X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL (x3d.py) libraries
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 5:21 PM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Adding a BVH file to DOM document conversion which can be loaded with X3DJSAIL sounds intriguing.
?
Once we have DOM, many possibilities abound.
?
After a couple of months off of desktop typing, my wrists are improving.? Also, I think an alternate sleeping position helped. Continued work on breathing is indicated.? I'm happy to see progress after 35 years!? Someone up there is answering prayer!
?
I?m hoping that adding more physical exertion will help cognitive symptoms. ? We carried a wooden table with 4 chairs upstairs at my in laws, played some ping pong and collected leaves last week.
?
I think pur best chance is to look for freely distributable ?Bvh files. ? I?m not sure if Kinect resolution is satisfactory for BVH et al.
?
Would anyone like a translation of the Java below?? Probably creating a project for loading HAnim files into Three.js is indicated.
?
Fun!
?
John?
?
On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 1:25 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
You can find example BVH-to-X3D conversion results at
?
? X3D Example Archives: Humanoid Animation, Motion Animation
? Motion Capture (MOCAP) examples using Humanoid Animation (HAnim) models illustrates conversion from BioVision Hierarchy (BVH) files for Character animation (such as 1.bvh).
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/1.bvh
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/1.bvh.txt
?
Additional good examples welcome, we can add them to the HAnim Examples archive.? Got one?
?
I just checked the BVH converter in rejuvenated X3D-Edit and it seems to still work fine.? 8)
?
? Menu item: X3D-Edit
? https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/X3D-EditBvhImport.png
?
Adapting the X3D-Edit converter source to be part of our X3DJSONLD X3DJSAIL X3DPSAIL libraries seems like an interesting utility function to add someday.
?
? https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/tools/X3dEdit4.0/X3dEditModuleSuite/X3dSourceFilePalette/src/org/web3d/x3d/actions/conversions/BvhToX3dConversionAction.java
?
Have fun with X3D and BVH!? 8)
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 11:22 AM
To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; h-anim at web3d.org; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Hi John.? Good ideas, thanks for sharing them.
?
Once again, it appears as if all the capabilities necessary to accomplish that are defined in X3D4 with immense sets of BVH captures available out there.? Good hunting, sir.
?
? X3D4 Architecture, 26.3.4 HAnimMotion
? https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion
?
? HAnim 2.0 Part 2:? Humanoid animation (HAnim) motion data animation, 4 Concepts
? https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-2/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/Concepts.html
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 10:46 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; h-anim at web3d.org
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy
?
Hmm.? I suggest extending the BVH to include multifigure collaborative motions like dancing (think Virginia Reel) and sports.? That is, some kind of composed BVH with multiple avatars.
?
This may already be done.
?
Thanks!
?
On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
X3D Working Group meets weekly for continued advancement of the X3D4 Specifications.
?
???????? Meeting time 09-1000 pacific, each Friday
???????? https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09 
???????? https://zoom.us/j/148206572? Password 483805 
???????? https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
?
Here is a ?new? proposed strategy, trying to say crisply the many essential ideas that are well known already by active participants in the X3D community.
?
?
(draft) Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure
?
No standardized definition for ?avatars? is provided in X3D4, but?
?
???????? Many alternatives are possible, the ?X? in ?X3D? is Extensible. Vive la difference!
???????? X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.
???????? Most powerful Web3D example design to date:? Silhouette Avatars by IVN, https://ivn.net
???????? Metadata for identity, secure digital signature and even encryption is possible.
???????? Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full avatar realism remains really interesting!? Interesting progress continues on this challenge.
?
X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions are agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum.? We expect to show full matching Implementation and Evaluation using X3D, learning further what avatar designs work well.
?
?
Let?s discuss please.? All inputs and discussion welcome.
?
Corresponding Web3D member-only draft slideset available at
? Representing Metaverse Humans with Open Standards
? Humanoid Animation (HAnim) and X3D4 ISO Specification Support
? Web3D Consortium Communications Team
? https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p
?
Membership has value!
? Join the Web3D Consortium
? The Web3D Consortium is a non-profit group open to industry, academic, government and individual members.
? https://www.web3d.org/join
?
Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars!? 8)
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
x3d-public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org


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From brutzman at nps.edu  Sat Nov  5 23:26:38 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 06:26:38 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] X3D-Edit pre-release available
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB48840A5589AFBB931C22CDCBC43D9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Now testing and available: a new pre-release for X3D-Edit 4.0

*
https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing

 

Instructions remain in parent directory (for regular releases) at

*	https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files

 

Zip install and Netbeans-plugin install works for me.  Windows install is
still tricky.  130 downloads so far.  Development efforts are ongoing, test
reports welcome.

 

Pre-release changes include latest version of BVH import and a Report button
for each node/statement to facilitate feedback when issues encountered.

 

Have fun with X3D-Edit!  8)

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 00:03:01 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 01:03:01 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] Researching compiler framework synthesis
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEmdn3CJoyj9u8RG0iiGWV=NzBb3ers2OMyd7JXrJrNQDQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/1ie8v0AZ8do

Alvin Cheung?s (UC Berkeley) presentation.

I?m currently working on compiler independent transformations, such that
enhancements in one compiler can rapidly added to other compilers.  A kind
of criss-cross-compiler framework.   Obviously there are supply chain
issues.

For example, what if the warnings and errors created by all compilers were
the same for a given programming language, and what if there was an effort
to do this across programming languages, creating a similar error language
for all languages?

What if we could create tesselation libraries in cross-language ways?

I?ve previously researched JSLT, XSLT transformed into JavaScript using
XSLT.

You?re now released to your own mind-bending program.

John
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 01:32:39 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 03:32:39 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] X3D-Edit pre-release available
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB48840A5589AFBB931C22CDCBC43D9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB48840A5589AFBB931C22CDCBC43D9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnajdOUi_cS2P8-2mS-+0-ZA-z36eKPo9ZT9VNHbgjnZA@mail.gmail.com>

Don,

Got your email, will start testing when i get downstairs.

I have been researching ?compilation framework synthesis? and i think we
should start on front ends, specifically loading JSON, Vrml97 and Classical
VRML for X3D*SAIL/x3d.py, choosing XML/DOM as the Intermediate
Representation (IR) and/or backend.  However, i think that besides JSON,
view3dscene covers these different front-ends.

May I suggest we start creating JsonToX3d.xslt  where newer versions of
Saxon can be used to convert JSON to XML?

I think this would be ideal, and you have my permission to use any patterns
or code you want from X3DJSONLD.

Found here:

https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD See code in src/main/node.

Once that is done, we can ?flip? the JSON to DOM code in X3DJSAIL, X3DOM
and X_ITE

I will look for a ?x3d to Python? in X3d-Edit, if available.

John

On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 1:27 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> Now testing and available: a new pre-release for X3D-Edit 4.0
>
>    -
>    https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing
>
>
>
> Instructions remain in parent directory (for regular releases) at
>
>    - https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files
>
>
>
> Zip install and Netbeans-plugin install works for me.  Windows install is
> still tricky.  130 downloads so far.  Development efforts are ongoing, test
> reports welcome.
>
>
>
> Pre-release changes include latest version of BVH import and a Report
> button for each node/statement to facilitate feedback when issues
> encountered.
>
>
>
> Have fun with X3D-Edit!  8)
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 02:34:28 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 04:34:28 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] Possibly previously reported
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEmEfZDEXE7HyhrWL0cZdEf3UAyGw6Qf+M+GKP6LmbkWiw@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of zips and md5 sums from X3D Resource Examples appear to have
problems downloading on Firefox/Debian 11.

Sending screenshot to Don.

John
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  7 15:15:31 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 15:15:31 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB4884C56804A4111680A49144C4349@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAGC3UEn8OY4noRQYmTti3VKM=XZOQW0+SKv5YdtWv07r-XsS8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UE=H7hwZS-mVpZB7RPk8Wj3pN+QrtrsruBO_pCY6q2xcJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkK0xqzE+Uvx-2otJ_QyRv+nvQsKo1kQP2EHFKhUYKK0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEmLftAq9tm5SspdyQ4g1W3EGz-_Ms5NoBvG0KaF-y9+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C6B4863B3C3C0876B5DBC4339@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGC3UEneiL9U9d5jXmy7O4ZcTFqWNQw0huSqrPNb-1FU96-xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <SA1PR13MB489348F713EA63CFE7224D78C4329@SA1PR13MB4893.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <00F64834-9296-4CF7-BE8F-E7FCFE29477C@nps.edu>
 <CAGC3UE=fAyP9Zq8H_grVDOgUUD0Vo2DcczZELpuZX2rFi2CUDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb158128-a31e-4549-b07b-6b2ebe99180f@MW2NAM10FT044.eop-nam10.prod.protection.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C56804A4111680A49144C4349@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1667862977.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>

Joe >> However the piro bvh example is Not Level 1, or any level because the bvh skeleton is (typically) Not a legal Hanim level of articulation. 
This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look at it. Is that the way your back works? But, the bvh skeleton is simple for simple stuffs.

A point is that the bvh skeletons I have seen are not any Hanim level because the spine is connected in a different way. There are other minor difs also. 

In the following, it is first about how to use a Standard Hanim skeleton with the bvh animation. 
Please not simply activating the bvh capture skeleton with the bvh animation because the bvh skeleton is probably not a standard hierarchy Hanim skeleton. 


? As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.? At present, am simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim possible.? That path can give us a LOT of content.? Still moving forward, so far?

Which is best is not an issue because bvh is not an authoring approach, it is a transport approach. For example, data from a defined bvh capture skeleton applied to a defined playback skeleton. The main problem is that the bvh skeleton is (probably) not any Hanim skeleton. 
I think we get usable content when the bvh animation is incorporated with _your_ ?Standard? Hanim skeleton. 

The animation is fully  incorporated with your skeleton when the animation is set up using x3d animation styles with reasonable keytimes and keyframe data, and therefore can be used as a basis for detailed animation of _your_ skeleton. 

Another idea for the x3d user code would be to allow construction of an interpolator that just listed the constant keytime interval instead of every keytime. That is what the gltf prefers since the rules for setting key times is more simple than x3d. However, since the bvh is aimed at video, that still leaves the problem of mostly too much keyvalue data. 

If we can provide a reasonable conversion from the bvh skeleton to Hanim loa4, then the user can edit and simplify the key and keyvalue data to finally adapt the animation to the target skeleton and integrate it with other animations.

Thanks Again, 
Joe

Again, the reason the target playback is a ?standard? loa4 is that the player will not complain if there is a joint that is not animated. The author can always easily add animation of joints not controlled by the bvh import. 

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 12:21 PM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

Joe you are correct historically ? but we added a third level for HAnim motion node in X3D4.? Schema, DTD are up-to-date, examples corrected too.? Am correcting other tools and diagnostics as I find them.

? X3D4 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component
? Table 26.2 ? Humanoid animation (HAnim) component support levels
? https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#t-supportLevels

As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.? At present, am simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim possible.? That path can give us a LOT of content.? Still moving forward, so far?

Building an X3D widget to follow your note and control frame-by-frame timing of HAnimMotion advancement by TimeSensor will be interesting?

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Joseph D Williams
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 7:04 PM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug


Brought out to public

From: Joseph D Williams
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 5:49 PM
To: John Carlson; Norbraten, Terry (CIV); X3D Graphics public mailing list
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: RE: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

? The Pirouette.x3d has
? <component level='1' name='HAnim?/>

An error.
Hanim has basically two levels ? 
skeleton with segment geometry and 
skeleton with skin. 
Check me on this. 
However the piro example is Not Level 1, or any level because the skeleton is Not a legal level of articulation. 
This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look at it. Is that the way your back works? But, it is simple for simple stuffs.

If you play with this loa non-conformer, like for instance hook the animation up to any of the more or less standard and proven stand walk run jump twist etc. animations in the archive, then I am fairly sure you will see unexpected gestures. And, when one or some of these work in a ?standard? hierarchy skeleton, then add it to the ?Standard? examples. 

Certainly, as you progress with authored hanim animation style, then you will wish you had started with current vs legacy skeleton, same as possible regret if you started with anything else than an loa4. 

However, this example certainly shows that out of any bvh collections, the native production is probably only a very rough starting point with lots of work left to adapt the captured motion to a usable playback character. 

So (from the Peanut Gallery), please do not run that non-conforming skeleton as a conforming hanim character anymore unless, If you really can?t get conforming x3d hanim skeleton as playback, then please don?t archive as hanim without proper bvh skeleton Disclaimer. 
Again, just convert to use the ?standard? loa4 as the target playback, at humanoid scale. Then, if interesting, the animations can be extracted for use in a legal skeleton and coded for realtime rather than videotime. Please don?t just simply recreate the bvh-encoded skeleton ? convert directly to loa4 at human scale and then you can see what you really have. ?

Please note one advantage of the typical video frame rate seen in these animation thingees, is that to make a video from these your player does not need to use interpolators since you give it the exact keyframe interval data. 

More fun with realtime hanim. 

Best regards,
Joe

From: John Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 2:53 PM
To: Joe D Williams; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: Re: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

Last i heard, HAnim is acceptable.? Joe can confirm, cced.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:00 AM Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu> wrote:
One issue is that the BVH converter is not translating the correct level for H-Anim. 

The Pirouette.x3d has

<component level='1' name='HAnim?/>

Should be

<component level='1' name=?H-Anim?/> ? <<< require the hyphen?

On Oct 28, 2022, at 05:59, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

Thank you John for excellent logs and sleuthing.
?
Terry, the error immediately jumping out at me is the following.? At least one library is not getting bundled properly.
?
? java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.vecmath.Vector3d
?
Great discussion yesterday Terry, thanks.? I have created the pre-release file site at
?
? https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing/
?
all the best, Don
--?
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br????????brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://?faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From:?John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>?
Sent:?Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:09 PM
To:?Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu>
Subject:?Re: Trying new download--X3D-Edit 4
?
NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.
?
I have confirmed the Pirouette.bvh in archives and pirouette.bvh are the same, essentially, just different whitespace.? ?I will now try to see if X3D-Edit will load the archive version.?
?
Attached are the logs that are showing up in Windows 10 X3D-Edit dev/var/log.
?
I haven't looked into them yet, I will now move to Linux.
?
If you could send me the X3d-Edit steps how to convert BVH to X_ITE and X3DOM, that would be great.
?
Forward old email if necessary.



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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 17:01:01 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:01:01 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
In-Reply-To: <636991d1.370a0220.c725a.a199SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <CAGC3UEn8OY4noRQYmTti3VKM=XZOQW0+SKv5YdtWv07r-XsS8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UE=H7hwZS-mVpZB7RPk8Wj3pN+QrtrsruBO_pCY6q2xcJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkK0xqzE+Uvx-2otJ_QyRv+nvQsKo1kQP2EHFKhUYKK0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEmLftAq9tm5SspdyQ4g1W3EGz-_Ms5NoBvG0KaF-y9+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C6B4863B3C3C0876B5DBC4339@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGC3UEneiL9U9d5jXmy7O4ZcTFqWNQw0huSqrPNb-1FU96-xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <SA1PR13MB489348F713EA63CFE7224D78C4329@SA1PR13MB4893.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <00F64834-9296-4CF7-BE8F-E7FCFE29477C@nps.edu>
 <CAGC3UE=fAyP9Zq8H_grVDOgUUD0Vo2DcczZELpuZX2rFi2CUDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb158128-a31e-4549-b07b-6b2ebe99180f@MW2NAM10FT044.eop-nam10.prod.protection.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C56804A4111680A49144C4349@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <636991d1.370a0220.c725a.a199SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEmF=qFHnGv8b=fckSKRJNYxwjAnBNZDq571HMwvXVKG4g@mail.gmail.com>

My albiet impractical approach was to bring your own skeleton, and add
whatever motion there is in the bvh file to the Motion object or
HAnimMotion element.   I did not realize that BVH files contained their own
skeleton.   Seems like one should Protoify a standard skeleton and pass the
motion as a parameter.   But I didn?t even get a chance to adequately look
at a bvh file beforehand.   May I suggest we pursue the Motion method, if
we are all in agreement?

I realize that X3DOM/Xj3d may not support the Motion/mocap stuff in XML.
I?m not aware if these are currently supported.  I do know that X_ITE
does.  I do know there is BVH handling in JavaScript.

So it seems like we?re translating bvh to non-standard skeletons, instead
of translating BVH to standard motion.

John

On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 5:16 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Joe >> However the piro bvh example is Not Level 1, or any level because
> the bvh skeleton is (typically) Not a legal Hanim level of articulation.
>
> This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy
> artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look
> at it. Is that the way your back works? But, the bvh skeleton is simple for
> simple stuffs.
>
>
>
> A point is that the bvh skeletons I have seen are not any Hanim level
> because the spine is connected in a different way. There are other minor
> difs also.
>
>
>
> In the following, it is first about how to use a Standard Hanim skeleton
> with the bvh animation.
>
> Please not simply activating the bvh capture skeleton with the bvh
> animation because the bvh skeleton is probably not a standard hierarchy
> Hanim skeleton.
>
>
>
>
>
>    - As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.  At
>    present, am simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most
>    compliant X3D HAnim possible.  That path can give us a LOT of content.
>    Still moving forward, so far?
>
>
>
> Which is best is not an issue because bvh is not an authoring approach, it
> is a transport approach. For example, data from a defined bvh capture
> skeleton applied to a defined playback skeleton. The main problem is that
> the bvh skeleton is (probably) not any Hanim skeleton.
>
> I think we get usable content when the bvh animation is incorporated with _
> *your*_ ?Standard? Hanim skeleton.
>
>
>
> The animation is fully  incorporated with your skeleton when the animation
> is set up using x3d animation styles with reasonable keytimes and keyframe
> data, and therefore can be used as a basis for detailed animation of _
> *your*_ skeleton.
>
>
>
> Another idea for the x3d user code would be to allow construction of an
> interpolator that just listed the constant keytime interval instead of
> every keytime. That is what the gltf prefers since the rules for setting
> key times is more simple than x3d. However, since the bvh is aimed at
> video, that still leaves the problem of mostly too much keyvalue data.
>
>
>
> If we can provide a reasonable conversion from the bvh skeleton to Hanim
> loa4, then the user can edit and simplify the key and keyvalue data to
> finally adapt the animation to the target skeleton and integrate it with
> other animations.
>
>
>
> Thanks Again,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Again, the reason the target playback is a ?standard? loa4 is that the
> player will not complain if there is a joint that is not animated. The
> author can always easily add animation of joints not controlled by the bvh
> import.
>
>
>
> *From: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 30, 2022 12:21 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>; Brutzman,
> Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Subject: *RE: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
>
>
>
> Joe you are correct historically ? but we added a third level for HAnim
> motion node in X3D4.  Schema, DTD are up-to-date, examples corrected too.
> Am correcting other tools and diagnostics as I find them.
>
>
>
>    - X3D4 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component
>    - *Table 26.2 ? Humanoid animation (HAnim) component support levels*
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#t-supportLevels
>
>
>
> As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.  At present, am
> simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim
> possible.  That path can give us a LOT of content.  Still moving forward,
> so far?
>
>
>
> Building an X3D widget to follow your note and control frame-by-frame
> timing of HAnimMotion advancement by TimeSensor will be interesting?
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of *Joseph D
> Williams
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2022 7:04 PM
> *To:* X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
>
>
>
>
>
> Brought out to public
>
>
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2022 5:49 PM
> *To: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
> <tdnorbra at nps.edu>; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Cc: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Subject: *RE: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
>
>
>
>    - The Pirouette.x3d has
>    - <component level='1' name='HAnim?/>
>
>
>
> An error.
>
> Hanim has basically two levels ?
>
> skeleton with segment geometry and
>
> skeleton with skin.
>
> Check me on this.
>
> However the piro example is Not Level 1, or any level because the skeleton
> is Not a legal level of articulation.
>
> This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy
> artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look
> at it. Is that the way your back works? But, it is simple for simple stuffs.
>
>
>
> If you play with this loa non-conformer, like for instance hook the
> animation up to any of the more or less standard and proven stand walk run
> jump twist etc. animations in the archive, then I am fairly sure you will
> see unexpected gestures. And, when one or some of these work in a
> ?standard? hierarchy skeleton, then add it to the ?Standard? examples.
>
>
>
> Certainly, as you progress with authored hanim animation style, then you
> will wish you had started with current vs legacy skeleton, same as possible
> regret if you started with anything else than an loa4.
>
>
>
> However, this example certainly shows that out of any bvh collections, the
> native production is probably only a very rough starting point with lots of
> work left to adapt the captured motion to a usable playback character.
>
>
>
> So (from the Peanut Gallery), please do not run that non-conforming
> skeleton as a conforming hanim character anymore unless, If you really
> can?t get conforming x3d hanim skeleton as playback, then please don?t
> archive as hanim without proper bvh skeleton Disclaimer.
>
> Again, just convert to use the ?standard? loa4 as the target playback, at
> humanoid scale. Then, if interesting, the animations can be extracted for
> use in a legal skeleton and coded for realtime rather than videotime.
> Please don?t just simply recreate the bvh-encoded skeleton ? convert
> directly to loa4 at human scale and then you can see what you really have.
>
>
>
> Please note one advantage of the typical video frame rate seen in these
> animation thingees, is that to make a video from these your player does not
> need to use interpolators since you give it the exact keyframe interval
> data.
>
>
>
> More fun with realtime hanim.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2022 2:53 PM
> *To: *Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
> <tdnorbra at nps.edu>
> *Cc: *Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
>
>
>
> Last i heard, HAnim is acceptable.  Joe can confirm, cced.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:00 AM Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu>
> wrote:
>
> One issue is that the BVH converter is not translating the correct level
> for H-Anim.
>
>
>
> The Pirouette.x3d has
>
>
>
> <component level='1' name='HAnim?/>
>
>
>
> Should be
>
>
>
> <component level='1' name=?H-Anim?/>   <<< require the hyphen
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2022, at 05:59, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thank you John for excellent logs and sleuthing.
>
>
>
> Terry, the error immediately jumping out at me is the following.  At least
> one library is not getting bundled properly.
>
>
>
> ?        java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.vecmath.Vector3d
>
>
>
> Great discussion yesterday Terry, thanks.  I have created the pre-release
> file site at
>
>
>
> ?
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing/
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fx3d%2Ffiles%2FX3D-Edit%2520Pre-Release%2520Testing%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Ccfce743709d84501fcd208dab9521e76%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638026059745002134%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5nGgyeQabvwSA5rQbsW5k1%2FOxZJgoQlYKbvhjYYhaeI%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:09 PM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Norbraten, Terry
> (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: Trying new download--X3D-Edit 4
>
>
>
> NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.
>
>
>
> I have confirmed the Pirouette.bvh in archives and pirouette.bvh are the
> same, essentially, just different whitespace.   I will now try to see if
> X3D-Edit will load the archive version.
>
>
>
> Attached are the logs that are showing up in Windows 10 X3D-Edit
> dev/var/log.
>
>
>
> I haven't looked into them yet, I will now move to Linux.
>
>
>
> If you could send me the X3d-Edit steps how to convert BVH to X_ITE and
> X3DOM, that would be great.
>
>
>
> Forward old email if necessary.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  7 18:36:14 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEmF=qFHnGv8b=fckSKRJNYxwjAnBNZDq571HMwvXVKG4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEn8OY4noRQYmTti3VKM=XZOQW0+SKv5YdtWv07r-XsS8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UE=H7hwZS-mVpZB7RPk8Wj3pN+QrtrsruBO_pCY6q2xcJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEkK0xqzE+Uvx-2otJ_QyRv+nvQsKo1kQP2EHFKhUYKK0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEmLftAq9tm5SspdyQ4g1W3EGz-_Ms5NoBvG0KaF-y9+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C6B4863B3C3C0876B5DBC4339@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGC3UEneiL9U9d5jXmy7O4ZcTFqWNQw0huSqrPNb-1FU96-xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <SA1PR13MB489348F713EA63CFE7224D78C4329@SA1PR13MB4893.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <00F64834-9296-4CF7-BE8F-E7FCFE29477C@nps.edu>
 <CAGC3UE=fAyP9Zq8H_grVDOgUUD0Vo2DcczZELpuZX2rFi2CUDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb158128-a31e-4549-b07b-6b2ebe99180f@MW2NAM10FT044.eop-nam10.prod.protection.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884C56804A4111680A49144C4349@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <636991d1.370a0220.c725a.a199SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
 <CAGC3UEmF=qFHnGv8b=fckSKRJNYxwjAnBNZDq571HMwvXVKG4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1667875019.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


From: John Carlson
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2022 5:01 PM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV); X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug

? My albiet impractical approach was to bring your own skeleton, and add whatever motion there is in the bvh file to the Motion object or HAnimMotion element. ?

Fine, very useful, getting the bvh skeleton to work is fine for experiment and comparing bvh motion with bvh skeleton against bvh motion with Hanim skeleton. Should be some comparable animations but since it may be important to demonstrate actual realistic body motions, the bvh armature is less proficient than the Hanim version. 

?  I did not realize that BVH files contained their own skeleton.  

It may be mostly the same in lots of examples. I think that is really a first step, to figure out if the bvh skeleton will run some ?standard? animation, like the walk or run in archives. If the bch skeleton can?t do the more or less standard Walk example we have, then maybe bvh animation may not be useful. 

?  Seems like one should Protoify a standard skeleton and pass the motion as a parameter. ? 

That is fine plan. Think of how to bring in a new animation, like you are walking, then want to wave, and those are two mostly independent animations. 

? But I didn?t even get a chance to adequately look at a bvh file beforehand. ? May I suggest we pursue the Motion method, if we are all in agreement?

Please notice that the typical bvh consists of a skeleton and an animation routine of some certain length. 
The animation information consists of a constant time step and a set of keyframe data for each joint to be animated, at each time step. Since the bvh is probably aimed at video frame rates, this means lots of keytimes and lots of keyframe data ? one keytime for each frame and one keyvalue for each joint at each frame. If one second is 30 frames, then for each animation one time value and joints times frames. Oh, and the bvh animation data probably uses xyz angles rather than axis-angle, or may be quaternions in gltf. 
When you convert this bvh animation to x3d timer-interpolator style, then the keytimes are all listed for every interpolator and also all keyvalues in axis-angle. If the bvh was 30 frames, then for each animation 30 keytimes and 30 keyvalues for each joint. Once you have this, though, at least it is in a form that is editable, changing animations and adding to the base. 

Recall how the bvh animations were probably made, by dragging limb to some point, saving that, moving to another, then setting an interpolater to work on the motion and storing it frame by frame in bvh for export to make a video at a fixed frame rate with the renderer actually not needing interpolator since all keytimes are set. Just what you need for a video render bot. Of course almost everybody knew that in order to exchange animations, the playback skeleton needed to be similar to the capture skeleton and any difference between the capture initial pose and the playback initial pose had to be known. 

Anyway, the big point is that in order to actually take control of the animation using your skeleton, you want it to be in x3d style rather than bvh style. Usually find way too many keyframes in bvh. More fun to learn how to edit out unneeded stuff and refine that than to have to deal with the excessive file sizes when you can author in realtime with interpolation rather than videotime.

? I realize that X3DOM/Xj3d may not support the Motion/mocap stuff in XML. ? 

Well, it seems like Don just told me that x3d player is supposed to support bvh like a native without the need for Hanim skeleton(-1) or x3d timer-interpolator expression. Maybe figure out how that is done. The spec tell how to do the xyz angle to axis-angle.

? 
? I?m not aware if these are currently supported.? I do know that X_ITE does.? I do know there is BVH handling in JavaScript.

? So it seems like we?re translating bvh to non-standard skeletons, instead of translating BVH to standard motion.

To me, the ideal is the application of a ?standard? animation to a ?standard? skeleton. This means extracting the bvh animation for use in the Hanim skeleton. 
The bvh file probably contains a sort of consensus skeleton that can be basis for a ?standard? Hanim skeleton, hopefully by some systematic process giving correct bone to joint connections. Since all bvh skeletons I have seen are -1 style, we just need some upgraded shoulder stuff. The bvh animation data is based on the skeleton in the file and if it is similar to the target Hanim skeleton, then the animation may be useful. 

? John

Hey John we are just getting to the fun part. 

Best of All, 
Joe


On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 5:16 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:
Joe >> However the piro bvh example is Not Level 1, or any level because the bvh skeleton is (typically) Not a legal Hanim level of articulation. 
This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look at it. Is that the way your back works? But, the bvh skeleton is simple for simple stuffs.
?
A point is that the bvh skeletons I have seen are not any Hanim level because the spine is connected in a different way. There are other minor difs also. 
?
In the following, it is first about how to use a Standard Hanim skeleton with the bvh animation. 
Please not simply activating the bvh capture skeleton with the bvh animation because the bvh skeleton is probably not a standard hierarchy Hanim skeleton. 
?
?
? As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.? At present, am simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim possible.? That path can give us a LOT of content.? Still moving forward, so far?
?
Which is best is not an issue because bvh is not an authoring approach, it is a transport approach. For example, data from a defined bvh capture skeleton applied to a defined playback skeleton. The main problem is that the bvh skeleton is (probably) not any Hanim skeleton. 
I think we get usable content when the bvh animation is incorporated with _your_ ?Standard? Hanim skeleton. 
?
The animation is fully ?incorporated with your skeleton when the animation is set up using x3d animation styles with reasonable keytimes and keyframe data, and therefore can be used as a basis for detailed animation of _your_ skeleton. 
?
Another idea for the x3d user code would be to allow construction of an interpolator that just listed the constant keytime interval instead of every keytime. That is what the gltf prefers since the rules for setting key times is more simple than x3d. However, since the bvh is aimed at video, that still leaves the problem of mostly too much keyvalue data. 
?
If we can provide a reasonable conversion from the bvh skeleton to Hanim loa4, then the user can edit and simplify the key and keyvalue data to finally adapt the animation to the target skeleton and integrate it with other animations.
?
Thanks Again, 
Joe
?
Again, the reason the target playback is a ?standard? loa4 is that the player will not complain if there is a joint that is not animated. The author can always easily add animation of joints not controlled by the bvh import. 
?
From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 12:21 PM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
?
Joe you are correct historically ? but we added a third level for HAnim motion node in X3D4.? Schema, DTD are up-to-date, examples corrected too.? Am correcting other tools and diagnostics as I find them.
?
? X3D4 Architecture, Clause 26 Humanoid Animation (HAnim) component
? Table 26.2 ? Humanoid animation (HAnim) component support levels
? https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#t-supportLevels
?
As far as which approach is best ? not currently an issue.? At present, am simply trying to convert legacy BVH files into the most compliant X3D HAnim possible.? That path can give us a LOT of content.? Still moving forward, so far?
?
Building an X3D widget to follow your note and control frame-by-frame timing of HAnimMotion advancement by TimeSensor will be interesting?
?
all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Joseph D Williams
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 7:04 PM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
?
?
Brought out to public
?
From: Joseph D Williams
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 5:49 PM
To: John Carlson; Norbraten, Terry (CIV); X3D Graphics public mailing list
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: RE: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
?
? The Pirouette.x3d has
? <component level='1' name='HAnim?/>
?
An error.
Hanim has basically two levels ? 
skeleton with segment geometry and 
skeleton with skin. 
Check me on this. 
However the piro example is Not Level 1, or any level because the skeleton is Not a legal level of articulation. 
This skeleton may be typical in bvh archives because it is a legacy artifact from before we had a world standard realistic skeleton. Just look at it. Is that the way your back works? But, it is simple for simple stuffs.
?
If you play with this loa non-conformer, like for instance hook the animation up to any of the more or less standard and proven stand walk run jump twist etc. animations in the archive, then I am fairly sure you will see unexpected gestures. And, when one or some of these work in a ?standard? hierarchy skeleton, then add it to the ?Standard? examples. 
?
Certainly, as you progress with authored hanim animation style, then you will wish you had started with current vs legacy skeleton, same as possible regret if you started with anything else than an loa4. 
?
However, this example certainly shows that out of any bvh collections, the native production is probably only a very rough starting point with lots of work left to adapt the captured motion to a usable playback character. 
?
So (from the Peanut Gallery), please do not run that non-conforming skeleton as a conforming hanim character anymore unless, If you really can?t get conforming x3d hanim skeleton as playback, then please don?t archive as hanim without proper bvh skeleton Disclaimer. 
Again, just convert to use the ?standard? loa4 as the target playback, at humanoid scale. Then, if interesting, the animations can be extracted for use in a legal skeleton and coded for realtime rather than videotime. Please don?t just simply recreate the bvh-encoded skeleton ? convert directly to loa4 at human scale and then you can see what you really have. ?
?
Please note one advantage of the typical video frame rate seen in these animation thingees, is that to make a video from these your player does not need to use interpolators since you give it the exact keyframe interval data. 
?
More fun with realtime hanim. 
?
Best regards,
Joe
?
From: John Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 2:53 PM
To: Joe D Williams; Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
Cc: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: Re: BVH to X3D Conversion bug
?
Last i heard, HAnim is acceptable.? Joe can confirm, cced.
?
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:00 AM Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu> wrote:
One issue is that the BVH converter is not translating the correct level for H-Anim. 
?
The Pirouette.x3d has
?
<component level='1' name='HAnim?/>
?
Should be
?
<component level='1' name=?H-Anim?/> ? <<< require the hyphen?
?
On Oct 28, 2022, at 05:59, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
?
Thank you John for excellent logs and sleuthing.
?
Terry, the error immediately jumping out at me is the following.? At least one library is not getting bundled properly.
?
???????? java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.vecmath.Vector3d
?
Great discussion yesterday Terry, thanks.? I have created the pre-release file site at
?
???????? https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing/
?
all the best, Don
--?
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br????????brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://?faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
?
From:?John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>?
Sent:?Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:09 PM
To:?Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; Norbraten, Terry (CIV) <tdnorbra at nps.edu>
Subject:?Re: Trying new download--X3D-Edit 4
?
NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.
?
I have confirmed the Pirouette.bvh in archives and pirouette.bvh are the same, essentially, just different whitespace.? ?I will now try to see if X3D-Edit will load the archive version.?
?
Attached are the logs that are showing up in Windows 10 X3D-Edit dev/var/log.
?
I haven't looked into them yet, I will now move to Linux.
?
If you could send me the X3d-Edit steps how to convert BVH to X_ITE and X3DOM, that would be great.
?
Forward old email if necessary.
?
?
?
_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
x3d-public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org

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From brutzman at nps.edu  Tue Nov  8 07:39:19 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:39:19 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] ***SPAM***  FW: x3d Wins an Award from SourceForge
In-Reply-To: <34be1519-e8c2-4202-b448-6eba81b05330+oss+achievement-award@sfs-gobble-1.v29.lw.sourceforge.com>
References: <34be1519-e8c2-4202-b448-6eba81b05330+oss+achievement-award@sfs-gobble-1.v29.lw.sourceforge.com>
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB4884053E4AC8C70F815173C2C43F9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

FYI

 

From: SourceForge <noreply at sourceforge.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 5:04 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: x3d Wins an Award from SourceForge

 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  



 
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Find, Create, & Publish Open Source Software for free.

 


Hi Don Brutzman, 

Congratulations! x3d has just been recognized with a Rising Star award by
SourceForge. This honor is awarded only to select projects that have reached
significant milestones in terms of downloads and user engagement from the
SourceForge community. 

This is a big achievement, as your project has qualified for this award out
of over 500,000 open source projects on SourceForge. SourceForge sees nearly
30 million users per month looking for, and developing, open source
software. This award badge will now appear on your project page, and the
award assets can be found in your project admin section. 

To recognize x3d?s achievement, we?ve awarded you with the Rising Star
award, which you can see below:
<https://a.fsdn.com/con/img/sandiego/svg/originals/badges/examples/oss-risin
g-star.png> Now that x3d is an official winner of the Rising Star Award, you
have express permission to use the award badge wherever you?d like. 

Feel free to proudly display the award on your personal or organizational
website, social media, or anywhere else you?d like. 

 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourcefor
ge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fadmin%2Ffiles%2Fbadges%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.e
du%7C93604a215ab144e2f4c708dac189a4a1%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0
%7C0%7C638035094757856563%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EYlUEFlieSbSw
Mzxx5GClP2Py7r1uwlAqXriqG2AZAA%3D&reserved=0> You can get the award badge
assets here. 

Congrats again on winning and keep doing amazing work because SourceForge
and our users appreciate it! 

Thanks, 

The SourceForge Team 

 


This e-mail was intended for: brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> 

 
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ge.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C93604a215ab144e2f4c708dac189a4
a1%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C638035094757856563%7CUnknown
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  8 12:27:16 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 12:27:16 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] FW: x3d Wins an Award from SourceForge
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB4884053E4AC8C70F815173C2C43F9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34be1519-e8c2-4202-b448-6eba81b05330+oss+achievement-award@sfs-gobble-1.v29.lw.sourceforge.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884053E4AC8C70F815173C2C43F9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1667939278.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


Way to go web3d x3d anywhere anytime. Marks consistent course by bod, developers, and authors.
 

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 7:40 AM
To: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org)
Cc: Norbraten, Terry (CIV)
Subject: [x3d-public] ***SPAM*** FW: x3d Wins an Award from SourceForge

FYI

From: SourceForge <noreply at sourceforge.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 5:04 AM
To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: x3d Wins an Award from SourceForge

?????????????????????????????????? 

Find, Create, & Publish Open Source Software for free.
Hi Don Brutzman, 

Congratulations! x3d has just been recognized with a Rising Star award by SourceForge. This honor is awarded only to select projects that have reached significant milestones in terms of downloads and user engagement from the SourceForge community. 

This is a big achievement, as your project has qualified for this award out of over 500,000 open source projects on SourceForge. SourceForge sees nearly 30 million users per month looking for, and developing, open source software. This award badge will now appear on your project page, and the award assets can be found in your project admin section. 

To recognize x3d?s achievement, we?ve awarded you with the Rising Star award, which you can see below: Now that x3d is an official winner of the Rising Star Award, you have express permission to use the award badge wherever you?d like. 

Feel free to proudly display the award on your personal or organizational website, social media, or anywhere else you?d like. 

You can get the award badge assets here. 

Congrats again on winning and keep doing amazing work because SourceForge and our users appreciate it! 

Thanks, 

The SourceForge Team 
This e-mail was intended for: brutzman at nps.edu
Unsubscribe from these notifications Privacy policy 
PO BOX 2452, La Jolla, CA 92038



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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 20:38:45 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 22:38:45 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] build a 3D Open Directory from DMOZ?
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEndkBEhrJiJK7_X151ZYebXbdQU0sCgt6b5_P8qewWNuw@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone created 3D online structures from
https://dmoz-odp.org/ (Open Directory?)

It should be possible with current WWW technology. We?re not trying to
displace the WWW.

Could we collect geospatial and/or temporal data and present it as well?

Can we come up with a better presentation than earth or maps?  Something
more exotic?

We were thinking of a forest of trees, perhaps swaying until the mouse gets
near.

What Shapes or geometry might people suggest?

I?m imagining someone did this 25 years ago?

I?m going to look for an archive of data rather than scraping.

John
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From brutzman at nps.edu  Fri Nov 11 11:58:22 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:58:22 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] X3D working group report 11 November: Web3D 2022,
 Web3D 2023, 
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB48842B20527EB21DC1D225A0C4009@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

No meeting today, we are honoring Veterans Day in USA.  Our thoughts go out
to those affected by conflict in Ukraine.

*	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day

 

2.	Web3D 2022.  By every account, this year's conference was
exceptionally great.

 

a.	27th ACM Conference on 3D Web Technology
b.	Website describes immense scope and quality.
https://web3D.siggraph.org
c.	Twitter pages show excerpts from most events, more to follow

*	https://twitter.com/Web3D2022
*	https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium
*	Image stream:
https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1589115527955644416/photo/1

d.	Videos were captured from all sessions and will be placed online,
together with presentation slidesets.
e.	ACM Digital Library for the conference will be free for another 2-3
weeks, this is your chance to access 27 years of intense technical and
artistic quality!

*	https://dl.acm.org
*	https://dl.acm.org/conference/web3d
*	633 papers available, 5423 citations, 259,312 cumulative downloads:
authors have quite an impact!
*	Welcome message from chair Christophe Mouton with program cochairs
Marius Preda and Indira Thouvenin:
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3564533

 

3.	Web3D 2023.  Exciting news! Building on this year's success, next
year's Web3D 2023 Conference will again be hosted in the Basque country of
San Sebastian Spain by VicomTech with Dr. Jorge Posada as general chair.
More information will follow with many excellent opportunities to
contribute.

*	https://www.vicomtech.org

 

4.	X3D-Edit 4.0 release.  We've published our second formal release on
SourceForge.  Thanks for all test reports, feedback is always welcome.
There have been 363 downloads so far and we've received the "Up and Coming"
award from SourceForge.  Most stable versions so far are zip for Java (any
OS), Apache Netbeans module (any OS), and Mac installer.  The X3D-Edit
Pre-Release directly supports intermediate improvements between numbered
releases.  The journey continues.

*	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit
*	https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files
*
https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit%20Pre-Release%20Testing

 

Have fun with 27 years of VRML, X3D and 3D Web Progress!  8)

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 12:28:08 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 14:28:08 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] build a 3D Open Directory from DMOZ?
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEndkBEhrJiJK7_X151ZYebXbdQU0sCgt6b5_P8qewWNuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEndkBEhrJiJK7_X151ZYebXbdQU0sCgt6b5_P8qewWNuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnGvXz4oCkmd6w4G-E6Y5TwaWquBAK6eM9y9WBLBpyG=A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm hoping to hear from someone on this.  It looks like sticking to
straight HTML+CSS won't really be an option, I'll try CSS3 next.

If anyone wants to track my progress, check out source code at
https://coderextreme.net/crazy.js (very preliminary).

On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 10:38 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone created 3D online structures from
> https://dmoz-odp.org/ (Open Directory?)
>
> It should be possible with current WWW technology. We?re not trying to
> displace the WWW.
>
> Could we collect geospatial and/or temporal data and present it as well?
>
> Can we come up with a better presentation than earth or maps?  Something
> more exotic?
>
> We were thinking of a forest of trees, perhaps swaying until the mouse
> gets near.
>
> What Shapes or geometry might people suggest?
>
> I?m imagining someone did this 25 years ago?
>
> I?m going to look for an archive of data rather than scraping.
>
> John
>
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 14 15:09:47 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:09:47 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1668467431.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>

Video of  Pirouette.x3d.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ognun8PEpg

Some work on conversion of bvh file to Pirouette.x3d. mainly to find the animations that work and the one that doesn?t. 

First, looking at the Pirouette.x3d with x_ite from the archives, then with viewx3dscene tool, using editor to find timesensor to stop animations and find the reference pose at the first frame, then isolate the animation causing the problem, which is the root rotation being improperly applied. 

Thanks, 
Joe
 
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From dragonmagi at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 15:44:51 2022
From: dragonmagi at gmail.com (Chris Thorne)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:44:51 +0800
Subject: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d
In-Reply-To: <6372caf1.050a0220.ab250.98a2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <6372caf1.050a0220.ab250.98a2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CANPgej05QTadv62i=6ALaowxAk+oZGn_72QrTwbZ8JS0wFk2iQ@mail.gmail.com>

bice work.

Social: https://www.facebook.com/DrChrisThorne
Only unreal told the truth. They did not call their object shifting method
"floating origin".
*Making games that scale and not fail*
*http://www.floatingorigin.com* <http://www.floatingorigin.com/>

Research profile: *https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chris_Thorne3*
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chris_Thorne3>




On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 at 07:10, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Video of  Pirouette.x3d.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ognun8PEpg
>
>
>
> Some work on conversion of bvh file to Pirouette.x3d. mainly to find the
> animations that work and the one that doesn?t.
>
>
>
> First, looking at the Pirouette.x3d with x_ite from the archives, then
> with viewx3dscene tool, using editor to find timesensor to stop animations
> and find the reference pose at the first frame, then isolate the animation
> causing the problem, which is the root rotation being improperly applied.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 14 15:55:31 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:55:31 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d
In-Reply-To: <CANPgej05QTadv62i=6ALaowxAk+oZGn_72QrTwbZ8JS0wFk2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6372caf1.050a0220.ab250.98a2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
 <CANPgej05QTadv62i=6ALaowxAk+oZGn_72QrTwbZ8JS0wFk2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1668470177.58606.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>

Bhanks, just having some fun. What the heck is wrong with root rotation? 
Bunches of redundant data in this. Will be able to make it work lots better using real Hanim skeleton.
Joe

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Chris Thorne
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:45 PM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d

bice work.?


Social: https://www.facebook.com/DrChrisThorne
Only unreal told the truth. They did not call their object shifting method "floating origin".
Making games that scale and not fail
http://www.floatingorigin.com
Research profile:?https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chris_Thorne3



On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 at 07:10, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:
Video of? Pirouette.x3d.
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ognun8PEpg
?
Some work on conversion of bvh file to Pirouette.x3d. mainly to find the animations that work and the one that doesn?t. 
?
First, looking at the Pirouette.x3d with x_ite from the archives, then with viewx3dscene tool, using editor to find timesensor to stop animations and find the reference pose at the first frame, then isolate the animation causing the problem, which is the root rotation being improperly applied. 
?
Thanks, 
Joe
_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
x3d-public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 19:05:01 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 21:05:01 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] Remember to validate/verify encoded files!
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnOa_TbnfK_btMh8+Dfg6oAH8geKqJsYXdz9mFR35ebOw@mail.gmail.com>

Remember to validate your X3D encoded files!   I need to check to see if
x3dom and x_ite have some kind of DOM document validation, JSON can be
validated with Ajv prior to loading.   One should use an appropriate schema
(JSON, XML or other).   X3DJSAIL already has XML validation in
X3DLoaderDOM.java.  X3DJSONLD.java can be used for converting JSON to DOM
documents for validation.

I?m not sure if we have adequate validation for generated binding programs,
use those with care.   Validate XML and JSON inputs!

Use of x3djsonld.py to load JSON should only be for pre-beta code as it is
currently incomplete.  One should validate the JSON prior to loading with
x3djsonld.py.   There are a few  JSON validators written in Python.

I?m hoping to get some official endorsement of this approach.   Perhaps we
should post to an X3D security page.

JSON Schema resources are available @
https://github.com/coderextreme/x3dschema

I have heard that CSV files need to be validated as well!   I don?t quite
get that, except i guess that class and field names can be included in
CSV.  You?ll probably have to include your own schema in a separate file!

Also be aware of Python pickled AI model files containing exploits. I have
a video i can share about that (this requires a time commitment, very
in-depth, but leads in with a good overview).

One should validate both input and output!

As always, be prepared for SQL injection and be aware of other types of
injection.

Validation can be considered domain-specific parsing.  You don?t want
people stepping outside X3D-specific vocabulary.

x3djsonld.cpp should probably not be used at this time in long running
programs, it was intended for quick conversion to XML.  While validation of
input and output is indicated, none is done.   The program itself can be
found in X3DJSONLD.   It should be ready for beta-testing.

John
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 20:19:19 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 22:19:19 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] Refraction? Prisms?
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnOtULxeOjuuiJog5iWAfjCzH_A_VHsbb--aV+VfFEHhA@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone is using (relative) frequencies of light along with refraction
with glTF and X3D, please let me know.  While I don?t yet have a good
graphics card, I?d like to figure out the right Proto or PBR for including
this smoothly into the X3D standard, version 4.1.

I do have some manner of existing shading files, but the visuals are not
super-realistic yet.

I?m guessing that a special shader may be required for each type of shape,
unless everything is converted to polygons before the shader.

Let me know.

Thanks!

John
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 18 09:42:01 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 09:42:01 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d
References: <6372caf1.050a0220.ab250.98a2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
 <CANPgej05QTadv62i=6ALaowxAk+oZGn_72QrTwbZ8JS0wFk2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1668793366.66663.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


So, we want to import bvh-style mocap to video forms to x3d typical realtime encodings. The big benefit could be literally lots of example mocap out there to add to the mostly ?standard? default, stand, walk, run, jump, etc, motions in the x3d HAnim archives. The  hard part(s) is that the typical bvh-style skeleton is different than any of our loa0-4 x3d HAnim skeletons. The major differences are  in the skeleton hierarchy and the default initial pose before animation. The typical bvh skeleton encountered so far is simplified  skeleton, with hips and shoulders connected more for ease of capture than realistic hip and shoulder motions and with default skeleton posed as T for draping instead of I for relaxed attention; maybe basic default joint orientations and other details. 

See, the data you see in bvh is probably sets of capture skeleton bone orientations which luckily can be used as playback skeleton joint rotation ? that is if you apply the correct bone orientation to the appropriate joint rotation. After that, the data may be in xyz euler angles at fixed frame rate  instead of (realtime) timer-interpolator axis-angle or unit quaternion style. While the typical bvh skeleton is ok for capture and transport of basic animations, it fails for realistic shoulder and hip and hand and feet animations. 
Also, if the capture data rate is not appropriate for the motion, then the xyz data lacks precision of axis-angle. Anyway, the promise is that we will find some special animation stuff that would be a basis for transport to ?Standard? skeleton. This hope is brightened when we see that we may be able to capture some important basic motions of the Pirouette as performed by a talented dancer. I am sure that if this animation can be developed using the HAnim loa3 or 4 ?standard? skeleton the end result will be much more satisfying and great certainty of reuse with other x3d ?standard? skeletons.  

There are some basic things we need in order to make this a systematic process. 

1. Joint/Segment/Site
Feature Reference Table (three cols, three parts)

  Joint Schema | v1 Joint name | v2 Joint name
   Ref Number  |                          |
...
  Segment Schema | v1 Segment name | v2 Segment name
   Ref Number         |                                  |

... 
  Site Schema | v1 Site name | v2 Site name
   Ref Number |                        |
... 

2. Update archived walk, run, etc animations.
  a. recode using v2 Joint/Segment/Site ref names 
  b. recode using v2 Joint/Segment/Site ref numbers  

This makes our archived ?standard? animations that run on ?standard? HAnim skeleton easier to reuse on v2 skeletons.. 

3. Update joeKick skeleton and skin
  a. recast joekick loa3 v1 names to v2 names to make v2 loa3 
  b. recast joekick v2 loa3 with Joint/Segment/Site ref numbers

4. Improve either korean loa4 model skeleton 
or loa4 in spec annex A skeleton 
  a. recast loa4 skeleton in humanoid scale 
   maybe not necessary, but could provide closer to spec example  
  b. recast korean loa4 with Joint/Segment/Site ref numbers 

This provides two reference skeletons, loa3 and loa4, to test bvh-derived animations.

5. Apply archived run, walk, etc, animations to typical bvh skeleton 
to find systematic conversion from typical bvh skeleton to HAnim. 

6. Recast bvh animations to hanim models 
  a. get piro animation working on 'std' hanim loa3 or 4 skeleton.

More later, 
Joe




From: Joseph D Williams
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:55 PM
To: Chris Thorne
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: RE: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d

Bhanks, just having some fun. What the heck is wrong with root rotation? 
Bunches of redundant data in this. Will be able to make it work lots better using real Hanim skeleton.
Joe

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Chris Thorne
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:45 PM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Pirouette.x3d

bice work.?


Social: https://www.facebook.com/DrChrisThorne
Only unreal told the truth. They did not call their object shifting method "floating origin".
Making games that scale and not fail
http://www.floatingorigin.com
Research profile:?https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chris_Thorne3



On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 at 07:10, Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:
Video of? Pirouette.x3d.
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ognun8PEpg
?
Some work on conversion of bvh file to Pirouette.x3d. mainly to find the animations that work and the one that doesn?t. 
?
First, looking at the Pirouette.x3d with x_ite from the archives, then with viewx3dscene tool, using editor to find timesensor to stop animations and find the reference pose at the first frame, then isolate the animation causing the problem, which is the root rotation being improperly applied. 
?
Thanks, 
Joe
_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
x3d-public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org


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From brutzman at nps.edu  Sun Nov 20 14:14:37 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 22:14:37 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.

 



 

and

 



 

Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in
troubleshooting.  I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been
swapped. or something like that.  42 other interpolators all look good when
we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the
OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.

      <!--

      <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer'
toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>

      <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper'
toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/> 

      -->

 

Occupational hazard: be careful to "not make sense" of what any of the
DEF/name words might mean - they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by
original capture team.  Also ignore LOA completely.  Instead we are trying
to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the
X3D HAnim node structures.

 

Helpful:

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/PirouetteIndex.html

 

includes links all current assets, including 

 

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/Pirouette.bvh

=========

HIERARCHY

ROOT hip

{

  OFFSET 0 0 0

  CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation

  JOINT abdomen

  {

    OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152

    CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation

    JOINT chest

 

Etc.

=========

 

and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was produced
in the X3D:

 

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport

 

============================================================================
===========================

HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) :
HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)

============================================================================
===========================

HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'

  humanoid_root : sacrum

    abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen

    | vl5 : l5

    |   neck : vl5_to_neck

    |   | skullbase : skull

    |   |   leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye

    |   |   rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye

    |   rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar

    |   | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr

    |   |   rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm

    |   |     rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand

    |   |       rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1

    |   |       | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2

    |   |       rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1

    |   |       | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2

    |   |       rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1

    |   |       | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2

    |   |       rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1

    |   |       | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2

    |   |       rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1

    |   |         rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2

    |   lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar

    |     lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr

    |       lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm

    |         lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand

    |           lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1

    |           | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2

    |           lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1

    |           | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2

    |           lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1

    |           | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2

    |           lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1

    |           | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2

    |           lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1

    |             lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2

    rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock

    | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh

    |   rShin : rThigh_to_rShin

    |     rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot

    lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock

      lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh

        lShin : lThigh_to_lShin

          lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot

============================================================================
===========================

 

Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).  Will troubleshoot further.  Thanks for
your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the
(literal) root of the matter.

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
To: Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: brutzman at nps.edu
Subject: pirouette skeleton

 



 

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 18:08:48 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 20:08:48 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEk2wrw9gFzB8GTvoH5yfKoa=r3ZFTOzdvzeQp7m01QyhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Don,

I believe this example shows the correct topmost DEFs/names for comparison.

https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Specifications/KoreanCharacterMotionAnnexC01Jin.x3d

Top joint is root and top segment is sacrum.  I am unsure what
hanimhumanoid DEf/name should be.

It would probably be best to validate a known x3d HAnimHumanoid (above, but
raw)

I will attempt that in followup.

John



On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:15 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.
>
>
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
>
>
> Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in
> troubleshooting.  I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been
> swapped? or something like that.  42 other interpolators all look good when
> we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the
> OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.
>
>       <!--
>
>       <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer'
> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>
>       <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper'
> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>
>       -->
>
>
>
> Occupational hazard: be careful to ?not make sense? of what any of the
> DEF/name words might mean ? they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by
> original capture team.  Also ignore LOA completely.  Instead we are trying
> to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the
> X3D HAnim node structures.
>
>
>
> Helpful:
>
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/PirouetteIndex.html
>
>
>
> includes links all current assets, including
>
>
>
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.bvh
>
> =========
>
> HIERARCHY
>
> ROOT hip
>
> {
>
>   OFFSET 0 0 0
>
>   CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation
>
>   JOINT abdomen
>
>   {
>
>     OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152
>
>     CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation
>
>     JOINT chest
>
>
>
> Etc.
>
> =========
>
>
>
> and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was produced
> in the X3D:
>
>
>
>    -
>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================================================================
>
> HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) :
> HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)
>
>
> =======================================================================================================
>
> HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'
>
>   humanoid_root : sacrum
>
>     abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen
>
>     | vl5 : l5
>
>     |   neck : vl5_to_neck
>
>     |   | skullbase : skull
>
>     |   |   leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye
>
>     |   |   rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye
>
>     |   rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar
>
>     |   | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr
>
>     |   |   rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm
>
>     |   |     rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand
>
>     |   |       rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1
>
>     |   |       | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2
>
>     |   |       rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1
>
>     |   |       | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2
>
>     |   |       rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1
>
>     |   |       | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2
>
>     |   |       rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1
>
>     |   |       | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2
>
>     |   |       rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1
>
>     |   |         rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2
>
>     |   lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar
>
>     |     lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr
>
>     |       lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm
>
>     |         lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand
>
>     |           lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1
>
>     |           | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2
>
>     |           lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1
>
>     |           | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2
>
>     |           lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1
>
>     |           | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2
>
>     |           lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1
>
>     |           | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2
>
>     |           lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1
>
>     |             lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2
>
>     rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock
>
>     | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh
>
>     |   rShin : rThigh_to_rShin
>
>     |     rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot
>
>     lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock
>
>       lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh
>
>         lShin : lThigh_to_lShin
>
>           lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot
>
>
> =======================================================================================================
>
>
>
> Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).  Will troubleshoot further.  Thanks
> for your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the
> (literal) root of the matter?
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
> *To:* Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc:* brutzman at nps.edu
> *Subject:* pirouette skeleton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 18:21:08 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 20:21:08 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEk2wrw9gFzB8GTvoH5yfKoa=r3ZFTOzdvzeQp7m01QyhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGC3UEk2wrw9gFzB8GTvoH5yfKoa=r3ZFTOzdvzeQp7m01QyhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnZHtCEBc9oAM=1PxAGt0fOgsd7KuwFASNob7KWCZ-swQ@mail.gmail.com>

The link I included did validate, as best as i could tell on the phone.   I
have not yet validated don?s example.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 8:08 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don,
>
> I believe this example shows the correct topmost DEFs/names for comparison.
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Specifications/KoreanCharacterMotionAnnexC01Jin.x3d
>
> Top joint is root and top segment is sacrum.  I am unsure what
> hanimhumanoid DEf/name should be.
>
> It would probably be best to validate a known x3d HAnimHumanoid (above,
> but raw)
>
> I will attempt that in followup.
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:15 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in
>> troubleshooting.  I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been
>> swapped? or something like that.  42 other interpolators all look good when
>> we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the
>> OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.
>>
>>       <!--
>>
>>       <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer'
>> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>>
>>       <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper'
>> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>>
>>       -->
>>
>>
>>
>> Occupational hazard: be careful to ?not make sense? of what any of the
>> DEF/name words might mean ? they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by
>> original capture team.  Also ignore LOA completely.  Instead we are trying
>> to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the
>> X3D HAnim node structures.
>>
>>
>>
>> Helpful:
>>
>>    -
>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/PirouetteIndex.html
>>
>>
>>
>> includes links all current assets, including
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.bvh
>>
>> =========
>>
>> HIERARCHY
>>
>> ROOT hip
>>
>> {
>>
>>   OFFSET 0 0 0
>>
>>   CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation
>>
>>   JOINT abdomen
>>
>>   {
>>
>>     OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152
>>
>>     CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation
>>
>>     JOINT chest
>>
>>
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> =========
>>
>>
>>
>> and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was
>> produced in the X3D:
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================================================================
>>
>> HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) :
>> HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)
>>
>>
>> =======================================================================================================
>>
>> HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'
>>
>>   humanoid_root : sacrum
>>
>>     abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen
>>
>>     | vl5 : l5
>>
>>     |   neck : vl5_to_neck
>>
>>     |   | skullbase : skull
>>
>>     |   |   leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye
>>
>>     |   |   rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye
>>
>>     |   rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar
>>
>>     |   | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr
>>
>>     |   |   rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm
>>
>>     |   |     rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand
>>
>>     |   |       rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1
>>
>>     |   |       | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2
>>
>>     |   |       rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1
>>
>>     |   |       | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2
>>
>>     |   |       rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1
>>
>>     |   |       | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2
>>
>>     |   |       rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1
>>
>>     |   |       | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2
>>
>>     |   |       rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1
>>
>>     |   |         rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2
>>
>>     |   lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar
>>
>>     |     lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr
>>
>>     |       lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm
>>
>>     |         lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand
>>
>>     |           lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1
>>
>>     |           | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2
>>
>>     |           lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1
>>
>>     |           | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2
>>
>>     |           lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1
>>
>>     |           | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2
>>
>>     |           lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1
>>
>>     |           | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2
>>
>>     |           lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1
>>
>>     |             lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2
>>
>>     rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock
>>
>>     | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh
>>
>>     |   rShin : rThigh_to_rShin
>>
>>     |     rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot
>>
>>     lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock
>>
>>       lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh
>>
>>         lShin : lThigh_to_lShin
>>
>>           lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot
>>
>>
>> =======================================================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>> Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).  Will troubleshoot further.  Thanks
>> for your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the
>> (literal) root of the matter?
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
>> *To:* Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Cc:* brutzman at nps.edu
>> *Subject:* pirouette skeleton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 18:25:13 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 20:25:13 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEnZHtCEBc9oAM=1PxAGt0fOgsd7KuwFASNob7KWCZ-swQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGC3UEk2wrw9gFzB8GTvoH5yfKoa=r3ZFTOzdvzeQp7m01QyhQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGC3UEnZHtCEBc9oAM=1PxAGt0fOgsd7KuwFASNob7KWCZ-swQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnFMN8qv6XeMhAJhsW+mxdJnUnkCz+w-YZvpL1xDoJ_zA@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, my, the hazard got me, suggest a new subject?

Thanks

On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 8:21 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> The link I included did validate, as best as i could tell on the phone.
> I have not yet validated don?s example.
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 8:08 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I believe this example shows the correct topmost DEFs/names for
>> comparison.
>>
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Specifications/KoreanCharacterMotionAnnexC01Jin.x3d
>>
>> Top joint is root and top segment is sacrum.  I am unsure what
>> hanimhumanoid DEf/name should be.
>>
>> It would probably be best to validate a known x3d HAnimHumanoid (above,
>> but raw)
>>
>> I will attempt that in followup.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 4:15 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in
>>> troubleshooting.  I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been
>>> swapped? or something like that.  42 other interpolators all look good when
>>> we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the
>>> OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.
>>>
>>>       <!--
>>>
>>>       <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer'
>>> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>>>
>>>       <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper'
>>> toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
>>>
>>>       -->
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Occupational hazard: be careful to ?not make sense? of what any of the
>>> DEF/name words might mean ? they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by
>>> original capture team.  Also ignore LOA completely.  Instead we are trying
>>> to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the
>>> X3D HAnim node structures.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Helpful:
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/PirouetteIndex.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> includes links all current assets, including
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.bvh
>>>
>>> =========
>>>
>>> HIERARCHY
>>>
>>> ROOT hip
>>>
>>> {
>>>
>>>   OFFSET 0 0 0
>>>
>>>   CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation
>>>
>>>   JOINT abdomen
>>>
>>>   {
>>>
>>>     OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152
>>>
>>>     CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation
>>>
>>>     JOINT chest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>> =========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was
>>> produced in the X3D:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================================================================
>>>
>>> HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) :
>>> HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================================================================
>>>
>>> HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'
>>>
>>>   humanoid_root : sacrum
>>>
>>>     abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen
>>>
>>>     | vl5 : l5
>>>
>>>     |   neck : vl5_to_neck
>>>
>>>     |   | skullbase : skull
>>>
>>>     |   |   leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye
>>>
>>>     |   |   rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye
>>>
>>>     |   rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar
>>>
>>>     |   | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr
>>>
>>>     |   |   rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm
>>>
>>>     |   |     rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand
>>>
>>>     |   |       rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1
>>>
>>>     |   |       | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2
>>>
>>>     |   |       rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1
>>>
>>>     |   |       | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2
>>>
>>>     |   |       rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1
>>>
>>>     |   |       | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2
>>>
>>>     |   |       rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1
>>>
>>>     |   |       | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2
>>>
>>>     |   |       rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1
>>>
>>>     |   |         rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2
>>>
>>>     |   lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar
>>>
>>>     |     lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr
>>>
>>>     |       lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm
>>>
>>>     |         lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand
>>>
>>>     |           lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1
>>>
>>>     |           | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2
>>>
>>>     |           lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1
>>>
>>>     |           | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2
>>>
>>>     |           lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1
>>>
>>>     |           | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2
>>>
>>>     |           lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1
>>>
>>>     |           | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2
>>>
>>>     |           lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1
>>>
>>>     |             lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2
>>>
>>>     rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock
>>>
>>>     | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh
>>>
>>>     |   rShin : rThigh_to_rShin
>>>
>>>     |     rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot
>>>
>>>     lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock
>>>
>>>       lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh
>>>
>>>         lShin : lThigh_to_lShin
>>>
>>>           lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).  Will troubleshoot further.  Thanks
>>> for your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the
>>> (literal) root of the matter?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
>>> *To:* Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>>> *Cc:* brutzman at nps.edu
>>> *Subject:* pirouette skeleton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>>
>>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>>
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 18:42:25 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 20:42:25 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] =?utf-8?q?USE_nodes_in_HAnim=E2=80=A6no_longer_requ?=
 =?utf-8?q?ired=3F?=
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEkTjpfgBQa2hoiMY6TJvsWb0Q9P_VGn=-VMmoNZFUFZGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I?m wondering if repetitive USE nodes in HAnim can be removed, per comments
in x3d validator.

Thanks,

John
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From brutzman at nps.edu  Mon Nov 21 08:04:06 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:04:06 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB48849F7942EDD70CD91135B8C40A9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Found the next BVH-conversion problem.  It was not a mixup in ROUTE
connections to the top-level skeleton-field model and HAnimHumanoid root
nodes.

 

 

Rather, the BVH file shifted X-Y-Z rotation order for the first entry and
the converter didn't recognize that.

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/Pirouette.bvh

 

Line 5: 

  CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation

 

Lines 9, 13, 17 etc.

      CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation

 

 

There was only one channel like this, so Joe your identification of the
culprit interpolator was critical to isolating and correcting this issue.
Again thanks.

 

I have updated X3D-Edit 4.0 to handle this case.  Resulting animation (shown
in view3dscene) looks a lot better.  Also have error report if an
unrecognized combination is found.  There still seems to be an occasional
unintended somersault in the pirouette behavior, possibly due to unsmooth
conversion of 3-tuple Euler angles into 4-tuple MFRotation values.

 

Have deployed a new pre-release X3D-Edit 4.0 with changes incorporated.

*	https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit Pre-Release
Testing/

 

Closer and closer, seems worthy of testing with other BVH files now.  Have
fun with X3D and HAnim!  8)

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 2:15 PM
To: Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>;
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: RE: pirouette skeleton; topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names
swapped?

 

Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.

 



 

and

 



 

Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in
troubleshooting.  I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been
swapped. or something like that.  42 other interpolators all look good when
we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the
OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.

      <!--

      <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer'
toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>

      <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper'
toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/> 

      -->

 

Occupational hazard: be careful to "not make sense" of what any of the
DEF/name words might mean - they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by
original capture team.  Also ignore LOA completely.  Instead we are trying
to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the
X3D HAnim node structures.

 

Helpful:

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/PirouetteIndex.html

 

includes links all current assets, including 

 

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/Pirouette.bvh

=========

HIERARCHY

ROOT hip

{

  OFFSET 0 0 0

  CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation

  JOINT abdomen

  {

    OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152

    CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation

    JOINT chest

 

Etc.

=========

 

and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was produced
in the X3D:

 

*
https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation
/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport

 

============================================================================
===========================

HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) :
HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)

============================================================================
===========================

HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'

  humanoid_root : sacrum

    abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen

    | vl5 : l5

    |   neck : vl5_to_neck

    |   | skullbase : skull

    |   |   leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye

    |   |   rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye

    |   rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar

    |   | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr

    |   |   rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm

    |   |     rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand

    |   |       rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1

    |   |       | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2

    |   |       rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1

    |   |       | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2

    |   |       rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1

    |   |       | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2

    |   |       rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1

    |   |       | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2

    |   |       rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1

    |   |         rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2

    |   lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar

    |     lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr

    |       lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm

    |         lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand

    |           lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1

    |           | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2

    |           lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1

    |           | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2

    |           lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1

    |           | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2

    |           lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1

    |           | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2

    |           lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1

    |             lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2

    rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock

    | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh

    |   rShin : rThigh_to_rShin

    |     rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot

    lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock

      lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh

        lShin : lThigh_to_lShin

          lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot

============================================================================
===========================

 

Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).  Will troubleshoot further.  Thanks for
your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the
(literal) root of the matter.

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
To: Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
>
Cc: brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> 
Subject: pirouette skeleton

 



 

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From brutzman at nps.edu  Mon Nov 21 19:43:33 2022
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV))
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 03:43:33 +0000
Subject: [x3d-public] new X3D-Edit 4.0 release,
 now testing plugin Update Center
Message-ID: <BY3PR13MB48842FCF60E001B2A90A6248C40D9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

New update to X3D-Edit has been released.

 

*	X3D-Edit 4.0 Beta Distribution, 21 November 2022
*	https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files

 

Have reconstituted our X3D-Edit Update Center on savage.nps.edu with
description online as follows.  Once you have Java JDK and X3D-Edit
installed, the autoupdate should work for all operating-system versions of
the installers.  Please configure your setup locally, we continue working to
simplify this whole process.

*	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/#Downloads
*
https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditUpdateCenterPlugins-AddUpdate
Center.png
*
https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditUpdateCenterPlugins-Settings.
png
*
https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditUpdateCenterPlugins-Updates.p
ng

Test reports always welcome.  Have fun with X3D!  8)

 

all the best, Don

-- 

Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        brutzman at nps.edu

Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149

X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

 

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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 21:13:34 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] 
 =?utf-8?q?USE_nodes_in_HAnim=E2=80=A6no_longer_requ?=
 =?utf-8?q?ired=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEkTjpfgBQa2hoiMY6TJvsWb0Q9P_VGn=-VMmoNZFUFZGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEkTjpfgBQa2hoiMY6TJvsWb0Q9P_VGn=-VMmoNZFUFZGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1669094056.66663.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>

Those sets of USE statements for the joints, segments, sites fields are just used for special purpose, should be generated explicitly for the ?external application that may use them, and are completely useless and confusing in normal usage. Thus, they should not be mandatory in any hanim user code. Plus, they have an odd definition in that the hanim standard processing to build the character is not supposed to actually use the USE text,  leaving me to still think these should be simple mf text fields listing only the def names. So, if I am working on an HAnim and they are there, it is the first thing I delete, to simplify and knowing the things are easy to construct if needed. So, just don?t bother with them, unless you need to. 

From: John Carlson
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 6:42 PM
To: Don Brutzman; Joe D Williams; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: USE nodes in HAnim?no longer required?

I?m wondering if repetitive USE nodes in HAnim can be removed, per comments in x3d validator.

Thanks,

John

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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 07:59:08 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:59:08 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] 
 =?utf-8?q?USE_nodes_in_HAnim=E2=80=A6no_longer_requ?=
 =?utf-8?q?ired=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <637c5a7c.170a0220.f6077.4c1fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <CAGC3UEkTjpfgBQa2hoiMY6TJvsWb0Q9P_VGn=-VMmoNZFUFZGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <637c5a7c.170a0220.f6077.4c1fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEnGfu5w+1FUNd5fE4fwCGaioUgH0BcM-9KhCP5Xv2CNfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Joe, most helpful!

John

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:13 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Those sets of USE statements for the joints, segments, sites fields are
> just used for special purpose, should be generated explicitly for the
> ?external application that may use them, and are completely useless and
> confusing in normal usage. Thus, they should not be mandatory in any hanim
> user code. Plus, they have an odd definition in that the hanim standard
> processing to build the character is not supposed to actually use the USE
> text,  leaving me to still think these should be simple mf text fields
> listing only the def names. So, if I am working on an HAnim and they are
> there, it is the first thing I delete, to simplify and knowing the things
> are easy to construct if needed. So, just don?t bother with them, unless
> you need to.
>
>
>
> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, November 20, 2022 6:42 PM
> *To: *Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>; Joe D Williams
> <joedwil at earthlink.net>; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *USE nodes in HAnim?no longer required?
>
>
>
> I?m wondering if repetitive USE nodes in HAnim can be removed, per
> comments in x3d validator.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 24 09:45:04 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:45:04 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] pirouette skeleton;
 topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint namesswapped?
In-Reply-To: <BY3PR13MB48849F7942EDD70CD91135B8C40A9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY3PR13MB488451379F15B6E2CEB0D05EC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB4884DA9A183AF3F7446B4BACC40B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <BY3PR13MB48849F7942EDD70CD91135B8C40A9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1669311960.66663.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


Fine stuff, Don. Slure to find many more interesting treatments.  
Link to current .x3d conversion? 

Maybe, this pirouette was actually used as very basic input for something like

https://youtu.be/zTbmIgWMoE8?t=62

That extreme opening move may have been barely possible to capture.

Thanks and Best, 
Joe

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 8:04 AM
To: Joseph D Williams
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org); Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
Subject: RE: pirouette skeleton; topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint namesswapped?

Found the next BVH-conversion problem?? It was not a mixup in ROUTE connections to the top-level skeleton-field model and HAnimHumanoid root nodes.


Rather, the BVH file shifted X-Y-Z rotation order for the first entry and the converter didn?t recognize that.
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.bvh

Line 5: 
??CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation

Lines 9, 13, 17 etc.
????? CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation


There was only one channel like this, so Joe your identification of the culprit interpolator was critical to isolating and correcting this issue.? Again thanks.

I have updated X3D-Edit 4.0 to handle this case.? Resulting animation (shown in view3dscene) looks a lot better.? Also have error report if an unrecognized combination is found.? There still seems to be an occasional unintended somersault in the pirouette behavior, possibly due to unsmooth conversion of 3-tuple Euler angles into 4-tuple MFRotation values.

Have deployed a new pre-release X3D-Edit 4.0 with changes incorporated.
? https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/files/X3D-Edit Pre-Release Testing/

Closer and closer, seems worthy of testing with other BVH files now.? Have fun with X3D and HAnim!? 8)

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 2:15 PM
To: Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: X3D Public Mailing List (x3d-public at web3d.org) <x3d-public at web3d.org>; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
Subject: RE: pirouette skeleton; topmost HAnimHumanoid and HAnimJoint names swapped?

Here is two views of the top from X3D-Edit.



and



Your video showing isolation efforts was a major step forward in troubleshooting.? I think the names for the top-two nodes may have been swapped? or something like that.? 42 other interpolators all look good when we comment out the timing events getting ROUTEd to the OrientationInterpolator DEF='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'.
????? <!--
????? <ROUTE fromField='fraction_changed' fromNode='RealTimer' toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/>
????? <ROUTE fromField='value_changed' fromNode='FrameStepper' toField='set_fraction' toNode='Interpolator1_humanoid_root'/> 
??????-->

Occupational hazard: be careful to ?not make sense? of what any of the DEF/name words might mean ? they are labels chosen somewhat arbitrarily by original capture team. ?Also ignore LOA completely. ?Instead we are trying to get the correct, consistent mapping of the labels in the BVH file to the X3D HAnim node structures.

Helpful:
? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/PirouetteIndex.html

includes links all current assets, including 

? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.bvh
=========
HIERARCHY
ROOT hip
{
? OFFSET 0 0 0
? CHANNELS 6 Xposition Yposition Zposition Zrotation Yrotation Xrotation
? JOINT abdomen
? {
??? OFFSET 0 20.6881 -0.73152
??? CHANNELS 3 Zrotation Xrotation Yrotation
??? JOINT chest

Etc.
=========

and here is the autogenerated HTML documentation showing what was produced in the X3D:

? https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/MotionAnimation/Pirouette.html#ROOT_hipHAnimHumanoidReport

=======================================================================================================
HAnimHumanoid skeleton holds X3D4 HAnim2 triplets, HAnimJoint (43) : HAnimSegment (43) : HAnimSite (15)
=======================================================================================================
HAnimHumanoid DEF='BvhPirouette_ROOT_hip name='ROOT_hip' loa='-1'
? humanoid_root : sacrum
??? abdomen : humanoid_root_to_abdomen
??? | vl5 : l5
??? |?? neck : vl5_to_neck
??? |?? | skullbase : skull
??? |?? |?? leftEye : skullbase_to_leftEye
??? |?? |?? rightEye : skullbase_to_rightEye
??? |?? rCollar : vl5_to_rCollar
??? |?? | rShldr : rCollar_to_rShldr
??? |?? |?? rForeArm : rShldr_to_rForeArm
??? |?? |???? rHand : rForeArm_to_rHand
??? |?? |?????? rThumb1 : rHand_to_rThumb1
??? |?? |?????? | rThumb2 : rThumb1_to_rThumb2
??? |?? |?????? rIndex1 : rHand_to_rIndex1
??? |?? |?????? | rIndex2 : rIndex1_to_rIndex2
??? |?? |?????? rMid1 : rHand_to_rMid1
??? |?? |?????? | rMid2 : rMid1_to_rMid2
??? |?? |?????? rRing1 : rHand_to_rRing1
??? |?? |?????? | rRing2 : rRing1_to_rRing2
??? |?? |?????? rPinky1 : rHand_to_rPinky1
??? |?? |???????? rPinky2 : rPinky1_to_rPinky2
??? |?? lCollar : vl5_to_lCollar
??? |???? lShldr : lCollar_to_lShldr
??? |?????? lForeArm : lShldr_to_lForeArm
??? |???????? lHand : lForeArm_to_lHand
??? |?????????? lThumb1 : lHand_to_lThumb1
??? |?????????? | lThumb2 : lThumb1_to_lThumb2
??? |?????????? lIndex1 : lHand_to_lIndex1
??? |?????????? | lIndex2 : lIndex1_to_lIndex2
??? |?????????? lMid1 : lHand_to_lMid1
??? |?????????? | lMid2 : lMid1_to_lMid2
??? |?????? ????lRing1 : lHand_to_lRing1
??? |?????????? | lRing2 : lRing1_to_lRing2
??? |?????????? lPinky1 : lHand_to_lPinky1
??? |???????????? lPinky2 : lPinky1_to_lPinky2
??? rButtock : humanoid_root_to_rButtock
??? | rThigh : rButtock_to_rThigh
??? |?? rShin : rThigh_to_rShin
??? |???? rFoot : rShin_to_rFoot
??? lButtock : humanoid_root_to_lButtock
????? lThigh : lButtock_to_lThigh
??????? lShin : lThigh_to_lShin
????????? lFoot : lShin_to_lFoot
=======================================================================================================

Onward we go, step by step (ha ha).? Will troubleshoot further.? Thanks for your time and efforts Joe, really crucial, we are getting closer to the (literal) root of the matter?

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

From: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2022 1:51 PM
To: Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: brutzman at nps.edu
Subject: pirouette skeleton




all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman? Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br??????? brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,? MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA??? +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 28 08:27:57 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 08:27:57 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] AI and the Metaverse
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1669652921.66663.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


Just in case anyone forgets that our Metaverse is InterNational as well as InterSpatial and InterTemporal,  the UN considers how to share immersiveness  and remain within the provisions, laws, traditions, and personal beliefs of everyone and, of course, metrification. 

https://media.un.org/en/asset/k1v/k1v22k9do1
Safeguarding the Metaverse: 
Countering Terrorism and Preventing Violent Extremism in Digital Space

This event aims at understanding the concept of the metaverse, as well as at raising awareness of and exchanging information on innovative and cutting-edge solutions. This should produce recommendations regarding preventing and countering potential terrorist threats and activity involving the metaverse, while also addressing current regulatory gaps at the intersection between State behaviour and corporate roles in the digital age.
.
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From yottzumm at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 09:45:20 2022
From: yottzumm at gmail.com (John Carlson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 11:45:20 -0600
Subject: [x3d-public] Clarity, or confusion?
Message-ID: <CAGC3UEntjcEkCBP-8xZ7=zWFDjDt3k6G87zou9WHwc+14iU_Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I?ve spent so much time on brain benders to avoid brain benders,
I?m now stuck on brain benders.

Sorry

John
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From joedwil at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 30 20:46:07 2022
From: joedwil at earthlink.net (Joseph D Williams)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 20:46:07 -0800
Subject: [x3d-public] Clarity, or confusion?
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEntjcEkCBP-8xZ7=zWFDjDt3k6G87zou9WHwc+14iU_Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGC3UEntjcEkCBP-8xZ7=zWFDjDt3k6G87zou9WHwc+14iU_Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1669852100.794.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org>


Do you want something that is not a brain bender? 

Simple table from schema: 

? 1. Joint/Segment/Site Feature Reference Table (three cols, three parts)

? Joint Schema | v1 Joint name | v2 Joint name
?? Ref Number? |??????????? ??????????????|
...
? Segment Schema | v1 Segment name | v2 Segment name
?? Ref Number???? ????|???????? ?????????????????????????|

... 
??Site Schema | v1 Site name | v2 Site name
?? Ref Number |??????? ????????????????|
... 


Later we could extend this by noting typical bone names from bvh skeletons that apply to specific hanim joints. This would help to derive a systematic process for converting bvh skeletons to Hanim skeletons. 

Not something particularly brain bending but serving as a platform to bend some brains.  

Thanks, 
Joe



From: John Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2022 9:46 AM
To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: [x3d-public] Clarity, or confusion?

I guess I?ve spent so much time on brain benders to avoid brain benders, I?m now stuck on brain benders.

Sorry

John

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