[x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0

Thu Jun 16 05:13:24 PDT 2022

Thanks Michalis great someone knows openGL.
-Doug
deprecation > I see x3d as something for prototyping, so it would have some
rarely-used-in-practice features, and allow crazy permutations, which game
engine designers could try and pick the things they need for their game
engine. Perhaps there could be a Game Engine Profile for things actually
used at scale? Example I'm trying cubemaps to get regular texture
treatment, including multitexturing, and (stretch) combining cubemaps with
2D textures in a multitexture. Why, where is the 'market demand'? There is
none. Except clearing out special cases in the code makes it more general,
more crazy permutations possible. Perhaps there could be a Crazy
Permutation Prototyping Profile which still has full permutations of
Multitexturing?

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 5:12 AM Michalis Kamburelis <
michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:

> 1. I interpreted the "FACTOR" in CGE/view3dscene just like FreeWRL. That
> is, "FACTOR" indicates to use MultiTexture.color / MultiTexture.alpha. I
> see I even call it "constant factor" in CGE/view3dscene code, to make a
> point that it is constant for the whole "execution" of this MultiTexture
> calculation.
>
> I think this was invented to correspond to old fixed-function OpenGL
> "glTexEnvv(GL_TEXTURE_ENV, GL_TEXTURE_ENV_COLOR, ...)".
>
> I believe the spec should be fixed, the existing sentence indeed is
> incorrect, as there are no "factors at particular stages".
>
> From
>
> """
> The texture argument is the factor (color, alpha) from the texture
> provided for the current stage of the MultiTexture node.
> """
>
> ->
>
> """
> The texture argument is the factor from MultiTexture node <i>color</i> and
> <i>alpha</i> fields.
> """
>
> 2. There's no alignment here with glTF -- glTF doesn't have MultiTexture.
>
> And, also because there are numerous problems with X3D MultiTexture
> unfixed for many years and it doesn't seem it is used by authors, I
> proposed in https://castle-engine.io/x3d_multi_texturing.php and
> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Deprecate-some-unused-and-badly-specified-MultiTexturing-specification-pieces
> that we just deprecate parts of it (leaving only some core functionality
> subset, to just sum and multiply textures).
>
> Regards,
> Michalis
>
> śr., 15 cze 2022 o 18:48 Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
> napisał(a):
>
>> Thanks Doug… am not sure.  Have shared with x3d-public for further
>> scrutiny.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michalis, when defining FACTOR, can we say things more clearly to ensure
>> good alignment with glTF approaches?
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 15, 2022 9:28 AM
>> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>
>> *Cc:* x3d at web3d.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry I was reading the committee draft, SELECT arg2 has been corrected
>> in Draft International Standard.
>>
>> But the confusion on the other one, FACTOR is still there
>>
>>
>> in freewrl looks like we've been using Multitexture.color and .alpha when
>> source is FACTOR.
>>
>> And those values are provided once by Multitexture for all stages
>>
>> Hypotheses:
>>
>> H0: freewrl has been doing it wrong
>>
>> H1: spec is unclear
>>
>> "FACTOR"
>>
>> The texture argument is the factor (color, alpha) from the texture
>> provided for the current stage of the MultiTexture node.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 2:35 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
>> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Doug.  Entered as Mantis 1397
>>
>>
>>
>> * Mantis 1397: Fix typo Table 18.3 — Multitexture values for mode field
>>
>> * https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1397
>>
>> *
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/texturing.html#t-MultitextureModes
>>
>>
>>
>> Change applied in git, ready for editor review/resolution (when Dick and
>> I next get together).  This should make it time for ISO DIS submission,
>> they are currently reviewing figures prior to acceptance.
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://
>> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: x3d <x3d-bounces at web3d.org> On Behalf Of Spec Feedback
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 1:15 PM
>> To: x3d at web3d.org
>> Subject: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --
>>
>>
>>
>> Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0
>>
>> 18.4.3 MultiTexture
>>
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/texturing.html#MultiTexture
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------
>>
>> "SELECTARG2"   Use color argument 1
>>
>> Arg2
>>
>> should be
>>
>> "SELECTARG2"   Use color argument 2
>>
>> Arg2
>>
>> -----------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Submitted on Tuesday, 2022,  June 14 - 1:15pm by  (Doug Sanden )
>>
>> IP: 23.17.48.2
>>
>>
>>
>> See: https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/6179
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> x3d mailing list
>>
>> x3d at web3d.org
>>
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20220616/f629bddd/attachment-0001.html>