[x3d-public] xml:lang language identification, X3D metadata patterns for XMP and multilingual support
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Thu Nov 25 08:15:13 PST 2021
I like the addition of lang field to MetadataString.
John
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 10:00 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> Thanks for your insights and helpful summary Jakub.
>
>
>
> With respect to xml:lang support in X3D XML encoding, am looking at ways
> we might effectively support it in validation tools and documentation as an
> allowed XML attribute that is *not* a preferred approach, emphasizing
> declarative MetadataString representations instead. Have started variation
> testing on an example scene.
>
>
> With regard to mapping XMP structures (essentially embedding Semantic Web
> RDF declarations), your suggestion to look at all of the defined terms &
> relationships there for correspondences to Dublin Core and other known
> terms is a good one. Thanks for sharing the XMP specification reference so
> everyone can look at it (I believe that XMP was later codified as an ISO
> standard too). This will also help us in future work when mapping glTF
> JSON-LD (linked-data) constructs, if those folks are actually following
> such practices.
>
>
>
> With regard to changing X3D4 XML default containerField for Metadata*
> nodes as ‘value’ for much terser Metadata structures, initial tests look
> good. Am considering how to best add a corresponding X3D3 XML example that
> clearly shows necessary compatible verbose forms for X3D versions 3.0
> through 3.3. In combination with good diagnostics and documentation, this
> should give us a solid path forward for backward/forward compatibility
> without problems.
>
>
>
> More on language representation: here is an interesting excerpt from RFC
> 5646.
>
> - RFC 5646, Tags for Identifying Languages, Best Current Practice BCP
> 47
> - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5646
>
> For markup languages, such as HTML and XML, language information
>
> can be added to each part of the document identified by the markup
>
> structure (including the whole document itself). For example, one
>
> could write <span lang="fr">C'est la vie.</span> inside a German
>
> document; the German-speaking user could then access a French-
>
> German dictionary to find out what the marked section meant. If
>
> the user were listening to that document through a speech
>
> synthesis interface, this formation could be used to signal the
>
> synthesizer to appropriately apply French text-to-speech
>
> pronunciation rules to that span of text, instead of applying the
>
> inappropriate German rules.
>
>
>
> Am wondering if we can extend this pattern to allow defining compatible
> multilingual expressions, as often occurs in XML and Semantic Web. Perhaps
> something like this:
>
>
>
> <MetadataSet name='description' reference='
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5646'>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Hello World'
> reference='lang=EN'/>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Witaj świecie'
> reference='lang=PL'/>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Bonjour le monde'
> reference='lang=FR'/>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Hola Mundo'
> reference='lang=ES'/>
>
> </MetadataSet>
>
>
>
> Nesting the 'lang=??' construct as an overload on the reference field is
> a bit awkward, and also limits proper use of the reference field (instead
> of pointing to a semantic reference as intended). Possible simpler
> alternative follows, which looks appealing and would also facilitate X3D
> parsing/conversions to various programming languages and file encodings:
>
>
>
> <MetadataSet name='description' reference='
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5646'>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Hello World' lang='EN'/>
>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Witaj świecie' lang='PL'/>
>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Bonjour le monde' lang='FR'/>
>
>
> <MetadataString name='description' value='Hola Mundo' lang='
> ES'/>
>
> </MetadataSet>
>
>
>
> Since multilingual support is already a goal for X3D (but we only support
> one language at a time), this second approach is worth considering. In
> addition to usage in metadata structures like XMP, it seems useful across
> the rest of X3D as well. For example an author might put such a construct
> within an Anchor or TouchSensor or Text node, and an X3D player might then
> offer the corresponding description matching user (or HTML page, or Web
> browser) language preferences.
>
>
>
> Note that it would require an additional field for MetadataString nodes.
> Candidate specification addition follows:
>
> -
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/core.html#MetadataString
>
> 7.4.6 MetadataString
>
> MetadataString : X3DNode, X3DMetadataObject {
>
> SFNode [in,out] metadata NULL [X3DMetadataObject]
>
> SFString [in,out] name ""
>
> SFString [in,out] reference ""
>
> MFString [in,out] value []
>
> SFString [in,out] lang ""
>
> }
>
> The *lang* field identifies corresponding human language for the provided
> *value* strings in accordance with [RFC5646].
>
>
>
> Since this additional *lang* field is only suggested for X3D4
> MetadataString node, not seeing any negative impact on existing X3D content
> or implementations.
>
>
>
> Opinions please?
>
>
>
> (Dick, just found a specification erratum: current X3D4 draft refers to
> [RFC4646] which is now obsoleted by [RFC5656] as above.)
>
>
>
> Incidentally there are also some Mantis issues regarding the internal
> interface hierarchy defined for Metadata nodes defined by X3D4
> Architecture. I will look at whether they are resolvable without impacting
> any content and review findings with Dick. Am expecting to either find a
> functionally equivalent satisfactory resolution (with zero impact on
> authors/implementers) or else recommend closing without specification
> change. As ever, X3D community and working group will be asked to review
> prior to final issue resolution.
>
>
>
> Finally, today in USA is Thanksgiving Day, a time to give thanks with
> family and count our blessings. All of us building on X3D around the world
> have a lot to be grateful for. Thanks to everybody helping advance these
> capabilities for everyone.
>
> - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving
>
> So, steady improvement as we explore… Have fun with X3D! 8)
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 23, 2021 9:00 AM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu>; John Carlson <
> yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> we had a short discussion with Don about the transformation of different
> XMP nodes and attributes to RDF. A general idea is to have an overview of
> the XMP specification available at:
>
> -
> https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMP%20SDK%20Release%20cc-2016-08/XMPSpecificationPart1.pdf
>
> and determine groups of XMP nodes and attributes that would require
> different transformation to RDF nodes and attributes. In such a case, we
> could have a pretty uniform approach to various metadata entities, while
> maintaining possibility to extend the transformation with new nodes and
> attributes.
>
> Best regards
> Jakub
>
>
>
> W dniu 19.11.2021 o 11:03, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) pisze:
>
> We had a useful discussion about xml:lang in Thursday weekly CAD DPS call,
> had similar thinking going on.
>
>
>
> I will be confirming with Jakub next week (using our XMP test model)
> whether <MetatadaString name=”xml:lang” value=”EN”/> is always preferable
> to attribute xml:lang=’EN’ because it is portable across all varieties of
> X3D.
>
>
>
> Whether or not to include attribute xml:lang=’EN’ in DOCTYPE/Schema:
> either add it everywhere since it is legal XML, or else not at all so that
> validation warnings are indeed thrown (since it is likely not the
> recommended approach).
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:58 PM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>; Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>
>
>
>
> I suggest getting xml:lang into X3DUOM before JSON Schema, but we can do
> some hard coding into the schema generator if pretesting is desired. An
> example JSON schema snippet would be required.
>
>
>
> Also consider “subclassing” xml:lang for our own purposes, including
> supporting locales in MFStrings perhaps.
>
>
>
> I think full testing of existing JSON schema in python,Java, and
> JavaScript would be desired before proceeding.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks for review comments.
>
>
>
> I agree that using MetadataString for xml:lang definitions is a good
> approach for portable X3D mappings within MetadataSet collections. Indeed
> that was the original approach we tried in the XMP mapping. Further
> scrutiny will be needed to see if it can support multiple xml:lang
> definitions for a given value, that might be a separate design pattern.
> Jakub and I will continue to look closely at this.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile, the xml:lang attribute is allowed by XML. Thus am still
> looking to add it to X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE (and possibly X3D JSON
> schema) as an attribute allowed during XML validation, at least for the
> handful of X3D use cases where it might make sense. Flagging presence of
> xml:lang values as erroneous would be a “false negative,” meaning an
> incorrect error diagnostic.
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of *John
> Carlson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 6:53 AM
> *To:* vmarchetti at kshell.com
> *Cc:* X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>
>
> Thanks, Vince. That’s pretty much what I wanted to say. I don’t know if
> schemas can apply xml:lang to an attribute in all XML documents guided by
> the schema. I don’t think that would make sense. I am not arguing a
> position, because I have not studied.
>
>
>
> I’ve had problems with namespaced attribute names in the past. I suggest
> we go through a thorough test after any updates to X3DUOM.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:24 PM, vmarchetti at kshell.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> XML allows identification of language via the reserved xml:lang attribute
> on any attribute.
>
>
>
> 1. XML Recommendation, fifth edition, W3C, section2.12 Language
> Identification
> 2. https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-lang-tag
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
> 1. W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) 1.1 Part 2: Datatypes, W3C
> Recommendation 5 April 2012 section 3.4.3 language
> 2. https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language
>
>
>
> These excerpts from the XML documents assert that the xml:lang attribute
> is not as granular as applying to individual attributes, but applies at
>
> the XML element level, and so to all the attributes and subelements , with
> some clear rules for overriding the xml:lang attribute in sub-elements.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, I think that the function of the xml:lang attribute
> can, in the X3D abstract specification, be performed by a MetadataString
> node which can be applied to any X3D node, including
>
> other Metadata nodes. The advantage of this approach would be that the
> language attribution can be readily transferred between different encodings
> of the same X3D content.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Today while working on XMP metadata transcription from RDF/XML (or TTL)
> form into X3D/XML form, Jakub and I found that we needed to utilize
> xml:lang attribute for lossless two-way conversion.
>
>
>
> I can think of the following X3D elements that might need to indicate
> which identification of human language might be appropriate:
>
> 1. Text node (corresponding to ‘string’ field)
> 2. MetadataString
> 3. <field> and <fieldValue> declarations, if type is SFString/MFString
>
>
>
> Conceivably we might also permit this whenever a description field is
> present also (Viewpoint, sensors, etc.).
>
>
>
> Not looking to change X3D expressive power but think that xml:lang
> information ought to be permissible in X3D XML encoding since it is an
> allowed part of XML.
>
>
>
> Thus am planning to add xml:lang as indicated above in the X3D XML Schema
> and X3D XML DOCTYPE to avoid incorrect, misleading validation errors.
>
>
>
> Any other considerations appropriate? Will enter Mantis issue when ready
> to proceed. All comments welcome.
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
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> --
>
> dr inż. Jakub Flotyński, prof. UEP
>
> Katedra Technologii Informacyjnych
>
> Uniwersytet Ekonomiczny w Poznaniu
>
>
>
> Department of Information Technology
>
> Poznań University of Economics and Business
>
> al. Niepodległości 10, 61-875 Poznań <https://www.google.com/maps/search/al.+Niepodleg%C5%82o%C5%9Bci+10,+61-875+Pozna%C5%84?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> tel./fax: (+48)(61)639-2758
>
> e-mail: flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl
>
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