[x3d-public] xml:lang language identification

Tue Nov 23 12:27:59 PST 2021

Does metadata include annotations?

Thanks!

John

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 10:59 AM Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> we had a short discussion with Don about the transformation of different
> XMP nodes and attributes to RDF. A general idea is to have an overview of
> the XMP specification available at:
>
>
> https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMP%20SDK%20Release%20cc-2016-08/XMPSpecificationPart1.pdf
>
> and determine groups of XMP nodes and attributes that would require
> different transformation to RDF nodes and attributes. In such a case, we
> could have a pretty uniform approach to various metadata entities, while
> maintaining possibility to extend the transformation with new nodes and
> attributes.
>
> Best regards
> Jakub
>
>
> W dniu 19.11.2021 o 11:03, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) pisze:
>
> We had a useful discussion about xml:lang in Thursday weekly CAD DPS call,
> had similar thinking going on.
>
>
>
> I will be confirming with Jakub next week (using our XMP test model)
> whether  <MetatadaString name=”xml:lang” value=”EN”/> is always preferable
> to attribute xml:lang=’EN’ because it is portable across all varieties of
> X3D.
>
>
>
> Whether or not to include attribute xml:lang=’EN’ in DOCTYPE/Schema:
> either add it everywhere since it is legal XML, or else not at all so that
> validation warnings are indeed thrown (since it is likely not the
> recommended approach).
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:58 PM
> *To:* Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu> <brutzman at nps.edu>
> *Cc:* vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>; Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>
>
>
>
> I suggest getting xml:lang into X3DUOM before JSON Schema, but we can do
> some hard coding into the schema generator if pretesting is desired.   An
> example JSON schema snippet would be required.
>
>
>
> Also consider “subclassing” xml:lang for our own purposes, including
> supporting locales in MFStrings perhaps.
>
>
>
> I think full testing of existing JSON schema in python,Java, and
> JavaScript would be desired before proceeding.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Thanks for review comments.
>
>
>
> I agree that using MetadataString for xml:lang definitions is a good
> approach for portable X3D mappings within MetadataSet collections.  Indeed
> that was the original approach we tried in the XMP mapping.  Further
> scrutiny will be needed to see if it can support multiple xml:lang
> definitions for a given value, that might be a separate design pattern.
> Jakub and I will continue to look closely at this.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile, the xml:lang attribute is allowed by XML.  Thus am still
> looking to add it to X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE (and possibly X3D JSON
> schema) as an attribute allowed during XML validation, at least for the
> handful of X3D use cases where it might make sense.  Flagging presence of
> xml:lang values as erroneous would be a “false negative,” meaning an
> incorrect error diagnostic.
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> *From:* x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> *On Behalf Of *John
> Carlson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 17, 2021 6:53 AM
> *To:* vmarchetti at kshell.com
> *Cc:* X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language identification
>
>
>
> Thanks, Vince.   That’s pretty much what I wanted to say.  I don’t know if
> schemas can apply xml:lang to an attribute in all XML documents guided by
> the schema.   I don’t think that would make sense.   I am not arguing a
> position, because I have not studied.
>
>
>
> I’ve had problems with namespaced attribute names in the past.   I suggest
> we go through a thorough test after any updates to X3DUOM.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:24 PM, vmarchetti at kshell.com wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <
> brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> XML allows identification of language via the reserved xml:lang attribute
> on any attribute.
>
>
>
>    - XML Recommendation, fifth edition, W3C, section2.12 Language
>    Identification
>    - https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-lang-tag
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FREC-xml%2F%23sec-lang-tag&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=5LMyZFoPQ4PUc356h2V2a0%2BSF2bH2ZiYrcsBz5wCOI4%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
>    - W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) 1.1 Part 2: Datatypes, W3C
>    Recommendation 5 April 2012 section 3.4.3 language
>    - https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fxmlschema11-2%2F%23language&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=hgGRY7kcWRLqBp0dH%2FjaABaGMZoC%2B8kHxdHP3cxUnoo%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> These excerpts from the XML documents assert that the xml:lang attribute
> is not as granular as applying to individual attributes, but applies at
>
> the XML element level, and so to all the attributes and subelements , with
> some clear rules for overriding the xml:lang attribute in sub-elements.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, I think that the function of the xml:lang attribute
> can, in the X3D abstract specification, be performed by a MetadataString
> node which can be applied to any X3D node, including
>
> other Metadata nodes. The advantage of this approach would be that the
> language attribution can be readily transferred between different encodings
> of the same X3D content.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Today while working on XMP metadata transcription from RDF/XML (or TTL)
> form into X3D/XML form, Jakub and I found that we needed to utilize
> xml:lang attribute for lossless two-way conversion.
>
>
>
> I can think of the following X3D elements that might need to indicate
> which identification of human language might be appropriate:
>
>    - Text node (corresponding to ‘string’ field)
>    - MetadataString
>    - <field> and <fieldValue> declarations, if type is SFString/MFString
>
>
>
> Conceivably we might also permit this whenever a description field is
> present also (Viewpoint, sensors, etc.).
>
>
>
> Not looking to change X3D expressive power but think that xml:lang
> information ought to be permissible in X3D XML encoding since it is an
> allowed part of XML.
>
>
>
> Thus am planning to add xml:lang as indicated above in the X3D XML Schema
> and X3D XML DOCTYPE to avoid incorrect, misleading validation errors.
>
>
>
> Any other considerations appropriate?  Will enter Mantis issue when ready
> to proceed.  All comments welcome.
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics https://
> faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
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>
> --
> dr inż. Jakub Flotyński, prof. UEP
> Katedra Technologii Informacyjnych
> Uniwersytet Ekonomiczny w Poznaniu
>
> Department of Information Technology
> Poznań University of Economics and Businessal. Niepodległości 10, 61-875 Poznań <https://www.google.com/maps/search/al.+Niepodleg%C5%82o%C5%9Bci+10,+61-875+Pozna%C5%84?entry=gmail&source=g>
> tel./fax: (+48)(61)639-2758
> e-mail: flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.plhttp://www.kti.ue.poznan.pl/flotynski
>
>
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