[x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Jan 25 16:08:51 PST 2021
Ah, no VPN required!
John
On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:
> Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN, but first I
> have to get on VPN
>
> I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to English?
>
> This is the point where you steal my files? It always seems to happen
> with VPN.
>
> On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the experimental
>> owncloud web interface at my vServer:
>> (owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but also has
>> calendar and contacts via WebDav)
>> URL https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud <http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud>
>> user name vpncal
>> password X3D4
>> All the best
>> Christoph
>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr
>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>> *An:* "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max.
>> 10 connections at a time)
>> John,
>> Please *expect some maintenance work (short interruptions) next week
>> Saturday (30th January).*
>> I have now *defined an online calendar for the VPN*, to avoid
>> flooding the mailing list.
>> The calendar can be *easily integrated with the calendar on your
>> Android phone* (see the green entry below!!!).
>> Probably it is possible to integrate it with any smartphone (it uses
>> the WebDav standard), but I haven't tried.
>> Installation instructions:
>> 1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone (available at F-Droid)
>> 2) Create new DAVx5 account "vpncal at lc-soc-lc.at"
>> - URL:
>> https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/
>> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/>
>> - user: vpncal
>> - pw: X3D4
>> 3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of WebCal
>> 4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the "personal" calendar is
>> activated for display
>> The installation instructions will be available at
>> https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental <https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental>
>> soon.
>> If you have set the synchronization correctly, then it should be
>> possible for you to make calendar entries, too (e.g. test sessions,
>> where you need more than 2 connections, or some specific multicast
>> address).
>> KR
>> Christoph
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr
>> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>> *An:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Betreff:* [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
>> connections at a time)
>> Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all interested in multiuser
>> Being very curious to get to know, whether the "server-less mode"
>> could really work, I was thinking about what could I contribute?
>> I have got this tiny vServer at hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
>> Germany), where I could implement a VPN for "server-less experiments".
>> Voilá
>> So, if you have a Windows 10 client, then what you can do:
>> 1) Install OpenVPN Connect software (community edition) -
>> https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/
>> <https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/>
>>
>> 2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment into C:\Program
>> Files\OpenVPN\config
>> 3) Start OpenVPN Client
>> 4) Connect
>> 5) Now your client is a multihomed host with an additional network
>> interface at 172.27.224.0/19
>> 6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is an island. Only people, who receive
>> this e-mail, can connect.
>> What is missing:
>> a) a proof that multicast addresses work on the VPN
>> b) an online calendar to coordinate the multicast sessions at the
>> VPN-> I will provide this on request.
>> KR,
>> Christoph
>>
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 01:34 Uhr
>> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Currently having two issues:
>>
>> 1) can test the VPN only with two Windows clients -> you have to
>> create your own experience with the Linux client
>> 2) still have to make the VPN permanent -> now the VPN has to be
>> restarted manually after server restart.
>>
>> Pls. expect final answer by Saturday evening, CET.
>>
>> My plan:
>>
>> I will publish (at a hidden place):
>>
>> a) example configuration from Windows OpenVPN Connect client
>> b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root certificate, which you have to trust
>> c) x3d-public.key private key for the Web3D community (not really
>> private)
>> d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the Web3D community (signed by yeti
>> -> my server will let you in)
>> e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must be identical on client and
>> server)
>>
>> Physical restriction: max. 10 connections at the same time, dynamic
>> IP addresses from a private IPv4 range (172.27.224.0/19).
>>
>> The VPN will be an island - the server will not route that subnet,
>> unless from one client to the others (hopefully including multicast
>> packets - not yet tested).
>>
>> KR
>> Christoph
>>
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um 07:38 Uhr
>> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>> I am now prepared to have a "client" of your UDP DIS server at
>> hoststar.at. I need things like address and port, per X3D PDU nodes.
>>
>> If there is ssh information for reaching your server network, let me
>> know. This is my preferred method. I do not believe I need special
>> permission except for perhaps a new user account.
>>
>> I've never really used a VPN, and will probably need instructions.
>> My experience with VPN varies "not very useful" and "OMG, my friends
>> are going to steal my files."
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>> If everything works fine (and if I've understood correctly), then you
>> can do tests with multicast IP transport, although you are
>> geographically separated.
>>
>> That's what I would like to try basically
>>
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>> gesendet.
>> Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson
>> <yottzumm at gmail.com>[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]:
>> My friends have asked me to set up a VPN on my machine in the past.
>> I don't really see the value of a VPN.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM Christoph Valentin
>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
>>
>> What I am going to try is to setup a VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer
>> at hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at <http://hoststar.at>], so we can do
>> a test session with DIS (hopefully).
>>
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um 23:13 Uhr
>> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
>> An: "Christoph Valentin"
>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
>> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>
>> What I was going to do is try to get DIS from GitHub and DIS from
>> X_ITE to talk to each other.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM Christoph Valentin
>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:
>> ok
>>
>> let me repeat your proposal:
>>
>> >>>>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
>> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor.
>> I think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
>> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>>
>> I think everybody agrees.
>>
>> So what would be the very first step (before the first step)? Assign
>> responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for official decision? Just do
>> it? Who? What? When? Create an official backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?
>>
>> kind regards
>> Christoph
>>
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>> gesendet.
>>
>> Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph Valentin
>> <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>:
>>
>> Not much,
>>
>> 1) It's another use case, which has proven it's usefulness during
>> SrrTrains v0.01:
>> - Customized Client Side Calculations
>> ( sent to x3d-public in January 2014:
>> https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf
>> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf>]]
>> )
>>
>> 2) And an idea (which is not yet settled).
>> - idea is to have two levels of identification:
>> identify the sensor by "streamName" + "networkSensorId"
>> (BS Collaborate: only "streamName"
>> Octaga: only "networkSensorId")
>>
>> 1) the stream = the model = the real life entity e.g.
>> "car"
>> 2) the sensor nodes themselves e.g. "steering",
>> "motor", "doors"
>>
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um 03:59 Uhr
>> Von: "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>
>> An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'"
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]>
>> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>
>> I am not sure what results you are referring to. Did I miss something?
>>
>>
>> From: x3d-public
>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
>> On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin
>> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM
>> To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>>
>>
>> so basically you want to ignore my results?
>>
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>> gesendet.
>>
>> Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL
>> <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]>:
>> Christoph,
>>
>> Thank you for the clarifications and your general dedication. I
>> believe that little misunderstandings should be addressed before they
>> snowball into bigger misconceptions.
>>
>>
>>
>> > If we specify a general Network Sensor API, then content can run
>> > with any X3D Player that supports the Network Sensor API.
>>
>> If you read again my last paragraph, I try to make a distinction
>> between a multiuser client and a X3D player. In other words, the
>> player is not necessarily the client. It appears to be a common
>> misconception that the X3D player must also be the MU client, while
>> in truth it really doesn't have to. For the reasons previously
>> stated, I tend to prefer that the player does not in fact act as the
>> client.
>>
>>
>> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
>> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary.
>>
>>
>> That is precisely why I am here. I do NOT want the application
>> protocol to be proprietary. And the fact that we still don't have a
>> standard keeps me from moving forward, because any development
>> efforts I make may someday have to be rewritten once we do have a
>> standard. IOW, I am not a big fan of reworking systems. I'd rather
>> use open standards as early in the process as possible to facilitate
>> interoperability later.
>>
>>
>> > If the protocol was specified, then I could use ANY
>> > server with the X3Daemon Client.
>>
>>
>> Ideally, systems could interoperate, though there are other factors
>> to consider. For example avatars must login to authenticate their
>> identity and assets, consisting of information that may or may not be
>> available to a third party server. But yes, you get the general idea.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > It is not sufficient to specify the
>> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. ...,
>> > but I had the feeling that you want to
>> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>>
>>
>> Read again, I was referring specifically to network protocols. Still,
>> at this early stage, I feel it may be a little premature to get too
>> involved with an application protocol, that until we get a better
>> grasp of what the requirements will be. For this reason, I am of the
>> opinion that fields and events should be specified first. Just so
>> that we have something to build upon.
>>
>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
>> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor.
>> I think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in
>> common, and go from there for deeper analyses.
>>
>> Once we have that settled, IMO, only then should we turn to discuss
>> an application layer protocol and its ramifications. GL
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: x3d-public
>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]
>> On Behalf Of
>> > Christoph Valentin
>> > Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09 PM
>> > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>> >
>> > Dear Gina Lauren
>> >
>> > Please find some feed back *inline*.
>> >
>> > Generally, please do not judge too hard, I'm not a native speaker
>> and still
>> > some of my wordings do not fit to the real intention.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Christoph
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >You want to lock in your users. That's not the spirit of open source.
>> >
>> > For once I was beginning to open up about the inner workings of a
>> multiuser
>> > system, but surprisingly, you apparently don't want to hear about
>> it. It is
>> > difficult to talk about open standards for a NSN if we can't refer to
>> > actual implementations. It's not like there are a lot of them around..
>> > [CV]: I should not have written this. However, I was a little bit
>> > impatient, because I have been preaching for years and years that the
>> > protocol itself must be specified. It is not sufficient to specify the
>> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not
>> read
>> > your words sufficiently thoroughly, but I had the feeling that you
>> want to
>> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>> >
>> > Also, who said anything about open source being a requirement? I was
>> > actually volunteering closed source information for the benefit of
>> an open
>> > standard. If you can't see that I was actually "giving" something
>> to the
>> > community.. then perhaps I am wasting my time???
>> > [CV]: Here I used "open source" and meant "open protocols", sorry, my
>> > mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a lot. Using too much time for my
>> hobbies,
>> > was one major reason, why my wife left us in 2015 (afterwards the
>> SrrTrains
>> > v0.01 project fell into hibernation mode due to lack of resources).
>> >
>> > Finally, if you would like to discuss an application layer
>> protocol, maybe
>> > look into work that has been done in the past referred to as vrtp
>> and x3dp.
>> > Not much, but a starting point. So far I have only heard vague comments
>> > about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)
>> > [CV]: I am sure that many people have contributed many parts of the
>> puzzle.
>> > Now we need somebody, who fits all together (that's not me, is it?)
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > [CV]: I never suggested to specifiy the transport protocol (http,
>> rtp,
>> > > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp, ........).
>> >
>> > hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this about???
>> > [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an "Application Layer Protocol"
>> (let's call
>> > it ALP in the sense of a "working title"). Probably the ALP will
>> consist of
>> > the definition of a few PDUs (e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or similar
>> syntax).
>> > Now we have to define, how the PDUs have to be transmitted over the
>> > network. Will they be sent as payload in http messages (in the
>> body)? Will
>> > they be sent as payload in SIP messages (in the body)? Will they be
>> sent
>> > directly over tcp connections?
>> > To get historically: at the beginning of the IETF they had a great
>> > movement. You could get T-Shirts with the meme "IP over everything". IP
>> > should connect any network with any network, building the
>> Inter-network. So
>> > they had to write one RFC for each L2 protocol in order to specify,
>> how IP
>> > has to be transported over any L2 link/network.
>> > I am dreaming of an "ALP over everything" movement.
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members of the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP
>> is as
>> > >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP is younger. It tries to merge
>> advantages
>> > >of both TCP and UDP and was originally invented to transport SS7
>> protocols
>> > >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k streams per association, what
>> perfectly fits
>> > >to our needs, imho
>> >
>> > Why are you trying to lecture me about network protocols? And what
>> is it
>> > exactly that you are saying or not saying, I find rather perplexing and
>> > fail to see the relevancy. Let's keep going...
>> > [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to stress
>> that SCTP
>> > actually IS TCP/IP
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >[CV]: Actually I suggested to specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE
>> application layer
>> > protocol,
>> >
>> > No-one is questioning this as far as I know. Isn't that precisely
>> what we
>> > are trying to do?
>> > Why are you augmenting this in my comments?
>> >
>> > [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not read your words sufficiently
>> thoroughly,
>> > but I had the feeling that you want to omit the specification of the
>> > protocol.
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >[CV]: The API (i.e Network Sensor) must be specified to run ONE
>> content
>> > with ANY X3D Player.
>> >
>> > Let's be careful here. The X3D player does not necessarily need to have
>> > agency over the application protocol. For example the X3Daemon client
>> > (sorry to bring it up) is entirely separate from the player other
>> than for
>> > interpreting ECMAScripts and rendering the results to screen. IOW, the
>> > X3Daemon client can theoretically run in any X3D player, regardless of
>> > internal multiuser coding, as long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
>> supported.
>> > This makes it very easy for authors to script avatar and object
>> behaviors,
>> > since it provides direct access to X3D nodes. It is also a reason
>> why we
>> > need to define a NetworkSensor node as part of the X3D standard.
>> > [CV]: That's exactly what I am saying: you specified your X3Daemon
>> client
>> > API, so a content that uses that API, can theoretically run with
>> ANY X3D
>> > Player (that the X3Daemon client supports). If we specify a general
>> Network
>> > Sensor API, then content can run with any X3D Player that supports the
>> > Network Sensor API.
>> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
>> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary. If the protocol was
>> specified,
>> > then I could use ANY server with the X3Daemon Client. It's similar
>> with BS
>> > Contact and BS Collaborate.
>> > Most customers are very sensitive about getting locked in. No matter if
>> > open source or closed source. We (my employer) made this experience
>> with
>> > railway operators, too.
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > GL
>> >
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > * * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
>> > * * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *
>> > * 3D Net Productions
>> 3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com
>> <http://3dnetproductions.com>[http://3dnetproductions.com
>> <http://3dnetproductions.com>]] *
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>[http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>]
>> _______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing
>> list x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________>[http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________>]
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________>[http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________>]
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org]
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>[http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>[http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>]
>> _______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing
>> list x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>
>> _______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing
>> list x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>> <http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20210125/e8227c2f/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kmlcjddfiimgjacf.png
Type: image/png
Size: 240041 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20210125/e8227c2f/attachment-0001.png>
More information about the x3d-public
mailing list