[x3d-public] announce: X3D4 updates

Thu Oct 15 10:26:29 PDT 2020

After the validators don't work, we have human validators. Paste errors
here, please.

I'm pretty much going with the flow, doing what I can.  I try to make my
tools work for all versions of X3D.

It's kind of funny about conversions, because that's what I mostly work
with.  But I don't have VRML input or output.   If you like, I can warm up
my VRML skills (non-existent) and try to create VRML to JSON and JSON to
VRML converters.   I am not sure if I'll get any farther though. There's
probably a reason why the converters are limited.

I think the major version change means "Breaking change" or "Major new
features."  Probably the latter is more what we're focusing on.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 12:09 PM Russ Kinter <pyth7 at verizon.net> wrote:

> I understand the foibles of x3d's html derivatives. I can deal with those,
> because they go with the territory.
> x3d conversions on the other hand shouldn't be having the hair pulling
> nonsense I have seen.
> I try to get my vrml files working as x3d first before attempting those.
>
> There's a very good reason you wished me good luck. I am going to need it.
> But I shouldn't have to need luck with a format whose movers and shakers
> think its ready to move on to the next level.
>
> I have the validator you suggested. The files it claims has errors will
> work, so how do I know which errors are "legitimate" and which errors are
> simply something Xj3D will turn its nose up at like my cats and their food?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> To: Russ Kinter <pyth7 at verizon.net>
> Cc: brutzman at nps.edu <brutzman at nps.edu>; x3d-public at web3d.org <
> x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2020 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] announce: X3D4 updates
>
> Russ,
>
> You should check the files with a validator for errors.
> https://savage.nps.edu/X3dValidator/  Or use NetBeans/X3D-Edit. If you
> convert your files to JSON. I find the validators very useful!
>
> I mostly use X3DOM and X_ITE for rendering.
>
> Good luck!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:22 AM Russ Kinter <pyth7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> X3D4?
>
> Might I suggest you ought to get x3d right in its current version first?
> Am trying to convert old complex VRML files that worked in major browsers
> to x3d.
> I convert a .wrl file in Bitmanagement Contact to x3d and it won't load
> the resulting file claiming there are errors in the file that itself made.
> Instant Player won't load it claiming errors.
> Output from Octaga has the same problem.
> FreeWRL? My sense of humor only goes so far.
> XJ3d? Not even gonna try.
>
> You should rename it "Babel". That's certainly more descriptive.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Snarky Troll in Residence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> To: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>
> Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2020 11:50 am
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] announce: X3D4 updates
>
> Standards-compliant x3dom Script tag offered on my x3dom Script branch.
>  Please make Sample branch work as well as master branch for the Gears
> example  (get to "innerRadius" error, or at least get console messages in
> Script.js working), which uses X3DScript.
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/x3dom/tree/Script
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/x3dom/tree/Script/test/functional/Gears
>
> I know very well you can get X_ITE Script node working, no need to show
> examples of that.
>
> Probably my issues with script and field were logged a long time ago and
> not addressed then.    Are we going to address them now?
>
> If you want to use "<script" along with "<field" in the context of HTML5,
> I'm pretty sure you'll have to address it with the web browser vendors and
> W3C. The problem, I believe, is that there are no tag children to script in
> HTML5.
>
> If you want more details, I suggest searching backwards through the posts
> for the last time I was implementing Script in x3dom--Nobody wanted to
> address it then.
>
> I believe the issue was something like Script could not be an X3DOM node.
> That is, we can't create a new Script node in X3DOM, because HTML5 consumes
> script--there's no way to override the script node, because that would
> likely break basic web security.  What we might be able to do is implement
> a new script language, like Brython does.
> https://brython.info/static_doc/en/intro.html  X_ITE has another way of
> handling Scripts with eval, so it doesn't have to put the Script tag in the
> DOM.  X3DOM is different, the script tag appears in the DOM.
>
> If someone is interested in exploring how to create a new web scripting
> language (with field tags), we can explore that.
>
> (waits patiently)
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:51 AM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
> "X3DScript" is non standard and will not be included in the X3D
> specification.
>
> It may be a useful hack to get X3DOM to coexist in a well-behaved way with
> HTML.  Should simply debugging a lot, eliminating ambiguity to get things
> working.
>
> Once it is working, we can then address how to let X3DOM be in charge of
> all Script nodes within an X3D scene.
>
> If no one can get X3DOM to handle it, it simply remains a curious
> noncompliant deviation from X3D.
>
> p.s. Gee we got Script working in 1997, didn't seem so hard then.
> Hopefully you can get X3DScript working now, that is most of the work.
>
> On 10/14/2020 7:47 PM, John Carlson wrote:
> >
> > Don’t forget to add X3DScript as previously mentioned.  Note I don’t
> expect X3DOM to support Script node for backwards compatibility.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 7:03 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:
> brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >     I have updated X3D4 nodes and fields and documentation to support
> all changes for Physically Based Rendering (PBR) and glTF, plus most
> changes for Projective Texture Mapping (PTM).
> >
> >     a. X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE
> >     b. X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM)
> >     https://www.web3d.org/specifications/
> >
> >     c. X3DJSAIL: X3D Java Scene Access Interface Library
> >     http://www.web3d.org/specifications/java/X3DJSAIL.html
> >
> >     d. X3DPSAIL (Python X3D Package)
> >     https://pypi.org/project/x3d/
> >     https://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/python/python.html
> >
> >     e. X3D Ontology (Turtle)
> >     https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/semantics/semantics.html
> >
> >     f. X3D JSON
> >     https://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/X3dToJson.html
> >
> >     g. X3D Tooltips
> >     https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html
> >
> >     h. X3D Validator
> >     https://savage.nps.edu/X3dValidator/
> >
> >     i. X3D Specification (github), editorial smoothing continues
> >     https://github.com/Web3DConsortium
> >
> >     Needless to say, it takes a lot of cross-checking to get all this to
> hang together.  That is good, high reliability.
> >
> >     Everything is published and checked into version control, along with
> build output logs for comparison.
> >
> >     Next, I expect one more X3D4 update prior to Web3D 2020 Conference:
> >
> >     - Sound component updates for W3C Audio API,
> >     - A few more hanges to PTM (texture transform, X3DLightingNode)
> resolution planned for this friday
> >     - shadowIntensity, in or out?
> >
> >     At that point we will have the entire infrastructure needed to
> support all X3D4 implementation capabilities.  No really.
> >
> >     All feedback and testing welcome.  Have fun with X3D4!  8)
> >
> >     all the best, Don
> >     --
> >     Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> >     Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>  +1.831.656.2149
> >     X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     x3d-public mailing list
> >     x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> >     http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> >
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
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