From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  1 06:45:20 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 07:45:20 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D to X3Dom > how store protoinstance fieldValues?
In-Reply-To: <BAY181-W66C9737B163761A8B86E3CB67C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY181-W66C9737B163761A8B86E3CB67C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W24F4861E79683ABA2F82AAB67D0@phx.gbl>

I've had some success using MetadataSet, MetadataString and MetadataFloat as a place to store initializeOnly data from a singleton (one-per-scene) proto/script. If a script/proto field has MFVec3f, I use MetadataFloat, and then in html script extract tuples via index*3, index*3+1 index*3+2
To access the fields directly by id, I use id="prototypename_fieldname" naming convention. If there were multiple script/proto instances I might use id="DEF_prototypename_fieldname".
-Doug
more..
I'm using MetadataSet containerfield="metadata" in the scene -which has a metadata field- for my singletons, but you could use "children" for more general placement I think.
more..
my example use of metadata for storing in x3dom what was protoInstance/script iniitializeOnly in X3D:
http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/townsite_2014/townside_withHud_x3dom.html
navigate in the model to see buildings, then use the year slidebar to show buildings by year - the building eras are in metadataFloat.



----------------------------------------
> From: highaspirations at hotmail.com
> To: x3d-public at web3d.org
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:56:25 -0700
> Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D to X3Dom> how store protoinstance fieldValues?
>
> Q. Where/how is a good way to store data that was previously in X3D ProtoInstance fields, so new html scripts can be written against it for x3dom?
> Thanks,
> -Doug
> more..
> In general, to store data in X3D, you can define a proto
> <ProdoDeclare ...>
> <field type name ..>
> </ProtoDeclare>
> <ProtoInstance ...>
> <fieldValue name='' value='...our custom data...'>
> </ProtoInstance>
>
> Scripts in the proto can access the data.
> Q. when converting animated scenes from x3d to x3dom, where's a good place to store our custom data?
>
> more..
>
> I'm converting my pet project from x3d to x3dom. It's, a virtual tour of a 100 year old townsite, recsontructed with virtual reality:
> http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/townsite_2014/townsite_withHud.x3d
> It has 2 modes: a building tour, with a slidebar for the year (I animated buildings below ground if there era of existance doesn't match the slidebar year), and a photo tour - 100 year old photos scanned in and positioned in 3D space to their original location, with year, caption, description, and a transparency slidebar so you can see how well the building geometry behind the photo lines up with the photo details.
> With about 100 photos and 50 buildings, there's lots of data to store, and I stored it in long fieldValues of my big animation proto.
> Now for X3Dom I want to re-animate, taking out the x3d proto, and putting the slidebars and buttons in html outside the scene, and redo the script in html javascript.
> Here's what I have so far:
> http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/townsite_2014/townside_withHud_x3dom.html
>
> Where's a good place to put these custom fields in html?
> - if some of the fields are/could-be MF types, such as viewpoint pose parameters
> - so that html scripts can access it
> Q. is there an x3dom / html equivalent to a proto, just for storing custom data?
> Q. or can I just define a custom html element and attributes without worrying about document validation schemas? (I know just a little html)
> Q. or should I embed it somehow within an html <script> element as static vars?
> Q. or can/should I leave it in an Inlined x3d proto?
>
> more..
>
> In X3D, I stored a lot of parameters in fields of the protoInstance:
> <ProtoInstance ...>
> 6 field values for photo tour: urls, viewpoint pose for each photo, cute name, description, and year/epoch of each photo:
> <fieldValue name='urlstrings' value=' "photo1.jpg" "photo2.jpg" ...' />
> ..
> 3 fieldValues for buildings, era of building, name of building, SFNode of building
> <fieldValue name='BuildingEras' value='1925.0 1965.0, ...
> ...
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
 		 	   		  

From brutzman at nps.edu  Mon Dec  1 22:56:37 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 22:56:37 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D schema,
	DTD updates: entitySubcategory capitalization
Message-ID: <547D62A5.9000705@nps.edu>

X3D Schema, DTD update activity:

=============================================================================
1 December 2014, norbraten daly brutzman
- field name consistency: entitySubCategory recapitalized as entitySubcategory to match capitalization of subcategory
=============================================================================

These assets can be found on the X3D Specifications: XML Schema and DOCTYPE Validation page.

     http://www.web3d.org/specifications

Full documentation updates have been autogenerated for the XML Schema and DOCTYPE validators.

	http://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSchemaDocumentation3.3/x3d-3.3.html

	http://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dDoctypeDocumentation3.3.html

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


From brutzman at nps.edu  Thu Dec  4 00:23:08 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 00:23:08 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need ability to import separate
 Javascript source library into embedded X3D Script code
In-Reply-To: <E1XwDVB-0004s9-2n@host.realism-sites.com>
References: <E1XwDVB-0004s9-2n@host.realism-sites.com>
Message-ID: <548019EC.2090806@nps.edu>

Comments on this issue welcome.  Seems like a big omission if indeed there is no way for an author to load an external Javascript library into a Script node internal to an X3D scene.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [X3D] Comment on Specification by "brutzman"
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:14:09 -0800
From: Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org>
To: x3d at web3d.org

Comment on 19777-1: JavaScript Binding - V3.3
4 Concepts
http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.0/Part1/concepts.html

-----------------
No method currently exists to import source for an external Javascript
library into an embedded X3D Script node.

The ECMAScript specification reserves keywords "import export" but does not
define functionality.
http://www.web3d.org/specifications/Ecma-262.pdf

HTML supports multiple javascript libraries in the web page via the  element.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html

X3D needs a similar mechanism where an X3D Script author can use/reuse an
external Javascript library.
-----------------

Submitted on Wednesday, 2014,  December 3 - 9:14am
by brutzman (brutzman )
IP: 205.155.65.226

See: http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/371


_______________________________________________
X3D mailing list
X3D at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org


all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman




From brutzman at nps.edu  Fri Dec  5 21:53:15 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:53:15 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D-Edit release: hotkey buttons for Edit Element and
 Xj3D Viewer, DIS improvements, specifications
In-Reply-To: <547929C1.5090700@nps.edu>
References: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu> <547929C1.5090700@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <548299CB.9040503@nps.edu>

X3D-Edit is an open-source Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics authoring tool for simple error-free editing, authoring and validation of X3D scenes.
     https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit

Small but helpful usability release today:

a. X3D-Edit Toolbar Buttons include new quick-launch icons and hotkeys for Edit Element (Ctrl+Shift+E) and Xj3D Viewer (Ctrl+Shift+X). These are excellent authoring assists that hopefully make editing even easier & faster.  Screenshot attached, long-term image link follows.

	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditToolbarButtons.png

b. Xj3D quirks are slowly yielding, hopefully the modified version of Xj3D embedded in X3D-Edit now runs on older versions of Windows.  Alternative X3D players are all installable and launchable via X3D-Edit. Screenshot attached, long-term image link follows.

	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/OptionsX3dViewersPanel.png

c. Improvements to editor layouts, tooltips, references and slides for IEEE Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) X3D node support: EspduTransform, ReceiverPdu, SignalPdu, TransmitterPdu.

	http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Tooltips
	http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#EspduTransform
	http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#ReceiverPdu
	http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#SignalPdu
	http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#TransmitterPdu

	https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/developers.html#DIS
	http://x3dgraphics.com/slidesets/X3dForAdvancedModeling/DistributedInteractiveSimulation.pdf

Work in progress:  initial testing of DIS support in X3DOM using Open-DIS JavaScript libraries.  The Java version of this codebase is working in Xj3D, additional codebase ports are also available in C++ C# and ObjectiveC.  Testing and debugging to follow on the X3DOM mailing list.

	https://github.com/mcgredonps/x3dom
	http://open-dis.sourceforge.net/Open-DIS.html

d. Recommended versions of X3D Specifications are again refreshed and all bundled as part of X3D-Edit help system.  Also available without charge online:

	http://www.web3d.org/standards

Thanks go to Mike Bailey, Terry Norbraten and Don McGregor for lots of work on these advancements.  Also thanks for all test reports.

Have fun with X3D-Edit!

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: X3D-EditToolbarButtons.png
Type: image/png
Size: 104640 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141205/1aee29bc/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OptionsX3dViewersPanel.png
Type: image/png
Size: 185345 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141205/1aee29bc/attachment-0003.png>

From holger.seelig at yahoo.de  Sat Dec  6 09:59:31 2014
From: holger.seelig at yahoo.de (Holger Seelig)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:59:31 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need ability to import
 separate Javascript source library into embedded X3D Script code
Message-ID: <sqpqjw7v86eiasgawtepoqi9.1417888771356@email.android.com>

This is indeed a missing feature. One way is to define a new function like "require" to import external JavaScript libraries:

require ("http://example.com/script.js", "../script.js");

For consistency it should can handle multiple URLs.


Von Samsung Mobile gesendet

<div>-------- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht --------</div><div>Von: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> </div><div>Datum:04.12.2014  09:23  (GMT+01:00) </div><div>An: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>, x3dom-developer	mlist <x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net> </div><div>Betreff: [X3D-Public] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need ability to import separate
  Javascript source library into embedded X3D Script code </div><div>
</div>Comments on this issue welcome.  Seems like a big omission if indeed there is no way for an author to load an external Javascript library into a Script node internal to an X3D scene.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [X3D] Comment on Specification by "brutzman"
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:14:09 -0800
From: Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org>
To: x3d at web3d.org

Comment on 19777-1: JavaScript Binding - V3.3
4 Concepts
http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.0/Part1/concepts.html

-----------------
No method currently exists to import source for an external Javascript
library into an embedded X3D Script node.

The ECMAScript specification reserves keywords "import export" but does not
define functionality.
http://www.web3d.org/specifications/Ecma-262.pdf

HTML supports multiple javascript libraries in the web page via the  element.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html

X3D needs a similar mechanism where an X3D Script author can use/reuse an
external Javascript library.
-----------------

Submitted on Wednesday, 2014,  December 3 - 9:14am
by brutzman (brutzman )
IP: 205.155.65.226

See: http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/371


_______________________________________________
X3D mailing list
X3D at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org


all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman



_______________________________________________
X3D-Public mailing list
X3D-Public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141206/f4159b02/attachment.html>

From web3d at realism.com  Sun Dec  7 09:02:18 2014
From: web3d at realism.com (Leonard Daly)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:02:18 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need
 ability to import separate Javascript source library into embedded X3D
 Script code
In-Reply-To: <CAGC3UEnAe9eW+GzMDta5y_zWRBpeKgfm-JMJxomDK65FOQZ=ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1XwDVB-0004s9-2n@host.realism-sites.com>	<548019EC.2090806@nps.edu>	<CAGC3UEkE_vdQOUzSTtQ5Z5quxVJ2AshD9PsUhCEAsjYQDTkHXA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAGC3UE=+wfm3zRX6XB5wbQ6-W18WvX3tHd_RSRatBSgi0-1ubw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAGC3UEm50KURJ-QC-CTVRhfWZfVcLhJhkSKUyTE9Gfmqs6+sPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UEnAe9eW+GzMDta5y_zWRBpeKgfm-JMJxomDK65FOQZ=ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5484881A.7060704@realism.com>

John,

Thanks for replying and contributing to the discussion. I hope I am 
following your comments correctly.

In X3D (not necessarily X3DOM), a Script node defines a new name space. 
The only way to communication between functions in different Script 
nodes is to pass events OR directly access the other node's events 
(directAccess='TRUE'). If you were to read in a Script node in an 
external X3D file (e.g., via GetX3dFromURL), then that Script node would 
be in a separate namespace as above.

Don's comment relates a desire to import JavaScript (formally 
ECMAScript) into an existing Script node so that functions and data in 
the imported file could be accessed directly via ECMAScript's standard 
mechanisms (call, data access, etc.). This is a really important feature 
for ECMAScript libraries.

There was a previous comment that is a feature that allows this to 
happen using 'required'. I cannot find that feature in the ECMAScript 
Language Specification at 
http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/ If it is not in the 
ECMAScript specification, then it is not supported in the X3D Script 
node. The X3D specification development team did not consider the impact 
of such a feature. If it is in the specification, then a review of the 
specification needs to performed to make sure everything operates as 
intended.

Also the AJAX functions XHR* and XHttp* are not in the ECMAScript 
specification so that it would not be possible to access the external 
file and 'eval' it.


Leonard Daly




> How is it different than reading the url into a string say with ajax 
> and then eval'ling the string?  Perhaps I'm missing something.
>
> On Dec 7, 2014 6:47 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com 
> <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Oh, I see.  I didn't realize web browsers supported require.  
>     This may be a bigger change than you think.  However for X3D 
>     server side,  it might be useful for libraries.
>
>     On Dec 7, 2014 6:39 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com
>     <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         What about the url attribute for script?
>
>         On Dec 7, 2014 6:35 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com
>         <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Eh, <script> doesn't support the src attribute????
>
>             On Dec 4, 2014 2:23 AM, "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu
>             <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
>
>                 Comments on this issue welcome.  Seems like a big
>                 omission if indeed there is no way for an author to
>                 load an external Javascript library into a Script node
>                 internal to an X3D scene.
>
>
>                 -------- Forwarded Message --------
>                 Subject: [X3D] Comment on Specification by "brutzman"
>                 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:14:09 -0800
>                 From: Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org
>                 <mailto:spec-comment at web3d.org>>
>                 To: x3d at web3d.org <mailto:x3d at web3d.org>
>
>                 Comment on 19777-1: JavaScript Binding - V3.3
>                 4 Concepts
>                 http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.0/Part1/concepts.html
>
>                 -----------------
>                 No method currently exists to import source for an
>                 external Javascript
>                 library into an embedded X3D Script node.
>
>                 The ECMAScript specification reserves keywords "import
>                 export" but does not
>                 define functionality.
>                 http://www.web3d.org/specifications/Ecma-262.pdf
>
>                 HTML supports multiple javascript libraries in the web
>                 page via the  element.
>                 http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html
>                 http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html
>
>                 X3D needs a similar mechanism where an X3D Script
>                 author can use/reuse an
>                 external Javascript library.
>                 -----------------
>
>                 Submitted on Wednesday, 2014,  December 3 - 9:14am
>                 by brutzman (brutzman )
>                 IP: 205.155.65.226
>
>

-- 
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141207/b84afc63/attachment.html>

From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  7 09:13:07 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 10:13:07 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need
 ability to import separate Javascript source library into embedded X3D
 Script code
In-Reply-To: <5484881A.7060704@realism.com>
References: <E1XwDVB-0004s9-2n@host.realism-sites.com>
	<548019EC.2090806@nps.edu>
	<CAGC3UEkE_vdQOUzSTtQ5Z5quxVJ2AshD9PsUhCEAsjYQDTkHXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UE=+wfm3zRX6XB5wbQ6-W18WvX3tHd_RSRatBSgi0-1ubw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UEm50KURJ-QC-CTVRhfWZfVcLhJhkSKUyTE9Gfmqs6+sPg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAGC3UEnAe9eW+GzMDta5y_zWRBpeKgfm-JMJxomDK65FOQZ=ag@mail.gmail.com>,
	<5484881A.7060704@realism.com>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W3381684AFA077C1E7E7217B6670@phx.gbl>

How about making script.url an MFMFString [[][]]? Each MFString would be for one .js to load into the Script node, in the order given.
-Doug

________________________________
> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 09:02:18 -0800 
> From: web3d at realism.com 
> To: yottzumm at gmail.com; brutzman at nps.edu 
> CC: x3d-public at web3d.org; x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net 
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need  
> ability to import separate Javascript source library into embedded X3D  
> Script code 
>  
> John, 
>  
> Thanks for replying and contributing to the discussion. I hope I am  
> following your comments correctly. 
>  
> In X3D (not necessarily X3DOM), a Script node defines a new name space.  
> The only way to communication between functions in different Script  
> nodes is to pass events OR directly access the other node's events  
> (directAccess='TRUE'). If you were to read in a Script node in an  
> external X3D file (e.g., via GetX3dFromURL), then that Script node  
> would be in a separate namespace as above. 
>  
> Don's comment relates a desire to import JavaScript (formally  
> ECMAScript) into an existing Script node so that functions and data in  
> the imported file could be accessed directly via ECMAScript's standard  
> mechanisms (call, data access, etc.). This is a really important  
> feature for ECMAScript libraries. 
>  
> There was a previous comment that is a feature that allows this to  
> happen using 'required'. I cannot find that feature in the ECMAScript  
> Language Specification at  
> http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/ If it is not in the  
> ECMAScript specification, then it is not supported in the X3D Script  
> node. The X3D specification development team did not consider the  
> impact of such a feature. If it is in the specification, then a review  
> of the specification needs to performed to make sure everything  
> operates as intended. 
>  
> Also the AJAX functions XHR* and XHttp* are not in the ECMAScript  
> specification so that it would not be possible to access the external  
> file and 'eval' it. 
>  
>  
> Leonard Daly 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> How is it different than reading the url into a string say with ajax  
> and then eval'ling the string?  Perhaps I'm missing something. 
>  
> On Dec 7, 2014 6:47 AM, "John Carlson"  
> <yottzumm at gmail.com<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>  
> Oh, I see.  I didn't realize web browsers supported require.   This may  
> be a bigger change than you think.  However for X3D  server side,  it  
> might be useful for libraries. 
>  
> On Dec 7, 2014 6:39 AM, "John Carlson"  
> <yottzumm at gmail.com<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>  
> What about the url attribute for script? 
>  
> On Dec 7, 2014 6:35 AM, "John Carlson"  
> <yottzumm at gmail.com<mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>  
> Eh, <script> doesn't support the src attribute???? 
>  
> On Dec 4, 2014 2:23 AM, "Don Brutzman"  
> <brutzman at nps.edu<mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote: 
> Comments on this issue welcome.  Seems like a big omission if indeed  
> there is no way for an author to load an external Javascript library  
> into a Script node internal to an X3D scene. 
>  
>  
> -------- Forwarded Message -------- 
> Subject: [X3D] Comment on Specification by "brutzman" 
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:14:09 -0800 
> From: Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org<mailto:spec-comment at web3d.org>> 
> To: x3d at web3d.org<mailto:x3d at web3d.org> 
>  
> Comment on 19777-1: JavaScript Binding - V3.3 
> 4 Concepts 
> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.0/Part1/concepts.html 
>  
> ----------------- 
> No method currently exists to import source for an external Javascript 
> library into an embedded X3D Script node. 
>  
> The ECMAScript specification reserves keywords "import export" but does not 
> define functionality. 
> http://www.web3d.org/specifications/Ecma-262.pdf 
>  
> HTML supports multiple javascript libraries in the web page via the  element. 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html 
>  
> X3D needs a similar mechanism where an X3D Script author can use/reuse an 
> external Javascript library. 
> ----------------- 
>  
> Submitted on Wednesday, 2014,  December 3 - 9:14am 
> by brutzman (brutzman ) 
> IP: 205.155.65.226 
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> Leonard Daly 
> X3D Co-Chair 
> Cloud Consultant 
> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
>  
> _______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list  
> X3D-Public at web3d.org  
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
 		 	   		  

From web3d at realism.com  Sun Dec  7 15:51:03 2014
From: web3d at realism.com (Leonard Daly)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 15:51:03 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] Fwd: [X3D] Comment: need
 ability to import separate Javascript source library into embedded X3D
 Script code
In-Reply-To: <CFA3399C-0F4F-48B6-9634-243ACD213BCB@gmail.com>
References: <E1XwDVB-0004s9-2n@host.realism-sites.com>
	<548019EC.2090806@nps.edu>
	<CAGC3UEkE_vdQOUzSTtQ5Z5quxVJ2AshD9PsUhCEAsjYQDTkHXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UE=+wfm3zRX6XB5wbQ6-W18WvX3tHd_RSRatBSgi0-1ubw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UEm50KURJ-QC-CTVRhfWZfVcLhJhkSKUyTE9Gfmqs6+sPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGC3UEnAe9eW+GzMDta5y_zWRBpeKgfm-JMJxomDK65FOQZ=ag@mail.gmail.com>
	<5484881A.7060704@realism.com>
	<CFA3399C-0F4F-48B6-9634-243ACD213BCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5484E7E7.5050408@realism.com>

On 12/7/2014 11:09 AM, Clayton Cottingham wrote:
> Just shooting spitballs here... is there no way to load the js in the 
> html and use that in the x3d script node ?

X3DOM is different because it runs directly in the browser environment. 
I was discussing the issue strictly from the standpoint of X3D. There 
may be an X3D environment that does not run in the context of a browser 
(e.g., Xj3D). The browser capabilities cannot be assumed for this type 
of environment.


Leonard Daly





>
> Html
> Head
> Script src=js4x3dom.js
>
> Body
> X3d
> Script use js4x3dom.js
>
>
>
>
> On 7 December, 2014 9:02:18 AM PST, Leonard Daly <web3d at realism.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     John,
>
>     Thanks for replying and contributing to the discussion. I hope I
>     am following your comments correctly.
>
>     In X3D (not necessarily X3DOM), a Script node defines a new name
>     space. The only way to communication between functions in
>     different Script nodes is to pass events OR directly access the
>     other node's events (directAccess='TRUE'). If you were to read in
>     a Script node in an external X3D file (e.g., via GetX3dFromURL),
>     then that Script node would be in a separate namespace as above.
>
>     Don's comment relates a desire to import JavaScript (formally
>     ECMAScript) into an existing Script node so that functions and
>     data in the imported file could be accessed directly via
>     ECMAScript's standard mechanisms (call, data access, etc.). This
>     is a really important feature for ECMAScript libraries.
>
>     There was a previous comment that is a feature that allows this to
>     happen using 'required'. I cannot find that feature in the
>     ECMAScript Language Specification at
>     http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/ If it is not in
>     the ECMAScript specification, then it is not supported in the X3D
>     Script node. The X3D specification development team did not
>     consider the impact of such a feature. If it is in the
>     specification, then a review of the specification needs to
>     performed to make sure everything operates as intended.
>
>     Also the AJAX functions XHR* and XHttp* are not in the ECMAScript
>     specification so that it would not be possible to access the
>     external file and 'eval' it.
>
>
>     Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>
>>     How is it different than reading the url into a string say with
>>     ajax and then eval'ling the string? Perhaps I'm missing something.
>>
>>     On Dec 7, 2014 6:47 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Oh, I see.  I didn't realize web browsers supported
>>         require.   This may be a bigger change than you think. 
>>         However for X3D  server side,  it might be useful for libraries.
>>
>>         On Dec 7, 2014 6:39 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             What about the url attribute for script?
>>
>>             On Dec 7, 2014 6:35 AM, "John Carlson"
>>             <yottzumm at gmail.com <mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Eh, <script> doesn't support the src attribute????
>>
>>                 On Dec 4, 2014 2:23 AM, "Don Brutzman"
>>                 <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>                     Comments on this issue welcome.  Seems like a big
>>                     omission if indeed there is no way for an author
>>                     to load an external Javascript library into a
>>                     Script node internal to an X3D scene.
>>
>>
>>                     -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>                     Subject: [X3D] Comment on Specification by "brutzman"
>>                     Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:14:09 -0800
>>                     From: Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org
>>                     <mailto:spec-comment at web3d.org>>
>>                     To: x3d at web3d.org <mailto:x3d at web3d.org>
>>
>>                     Comment on 19777-1: JavaScript Binding - V3.3
>>                     4 Concepts
>>                     http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.0/Part1/concepts.html
>>
>>                     -----------------
>>                     No method currently exists to import source for
>>                     an external Javascript
>>                     library into an embedded X3D Script node.
>>
>>                     The ECMAScript specification reserves keywords
>>                     "import export" but does not
>>                     define functionality.
>>                     http://www.web3d.org/specifications/Ecma-262.pdf
>>
>>                     HTML supports multiple javascript libraries in
>>                     the web page via the  element.
>>                     http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html
>>                     http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html
>>
>>                     X3D needs a similar mechanism where an X3D Script
>>                     author can use/reuse an
>>                     external Javascript library.
>>                     -----------------
>>
>>                     Submitted on Wednesday, 2014,  December 3 - 9:14am
>>                     by brutzman (brutzman )
>>                     IP: 205.155.65.226
>>
>>
>
>     -- 
>     *Leonard Daly*
>     X3D Co-Chair
>     Cloud Consultant
>     President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>     from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>     with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>     Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>     http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     x3dom-developers mailing list
>     x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-developers
>
>
> -- 
> Sent from my Android 


-- 
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141207/6d213c99/attachment.html>

From brutzman at nps.edu  Thu Dec 11 21:45:55 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:45:55 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D-Edit release announcement: X3D Validator,
 converter and Xj3D improvements
In-Reply-To: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu>
References: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <548A8113.7000203@nps.edu>

X3D-Edit is an open-source Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics authoring tool for simple error-free editing, authoring and validation of X3D scenes.
	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit

Download and autoupdate instructions:
	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/#Downloads

Today's new release fixes several important issues.  For both Netbeans plugin and standalone application:

New build just released, the X3D Validator (check mark button) and the various XSLT stylesheet converters now work.  Terry Norbraten figured out how to replace our older Saxon stylesheet engine to match the stock Netbeans version.  Seems to be a good bit faster too.

Several other Xj3D fixes too.   Very helpful: when you Save a file (Ctrl-s), Xj3D reloads the current scene - no extra button pushes or hot keys needed.

Thanks for all the troubleshooting reports we are getting, they definitely help.

Have fun with X3D-Edit!

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman



From brutzman at nps.edu  Fri Dec 12 09:37:59 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:37:59 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
Message-ID: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>

We had an excellent discussion on the Web3D Communications teleconference this morning.

One of the key topics we are looking at is applying security to X3D models.

Excellent (indeed world-class) solutions exist already for digital signing and encryption.  These can work for full scenes, inlined scenes, and even portions of scenes (such as a high-fidelity model variant under an LOD).

Important insight:  we need to start building XML security support into our X3D players as well as improving our tools.  Then authors can use digital signature and encryption freely.

Feedback welcome.  How important is this to authors and applications?


http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Security
==================================================
X3D Resources: Security

The .x3d encoding is XML based. This means that the full power of Web Security can be applied to X3D Graphics models.

* X3D Security Examples demonstrate conversions for XML Encryption and XML Signature (digital authentication)
* X3D Security README describes the technical detail about how all this works.

Player and tool support:

* X3D-Edit authoring tool.
* Advanced developers can use native XML tools.
* TODO: better built-in support is needed by X3D players and tools.

Interested? The Web3D Consortium X3D Working Group participates in the W3C Security Activity to continue taking advantage of ongoing developments.
==================================================

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


From christoph.valentin at gmx.at  Sat Dec 13 01:41:17 2014
From: christoph.valentin at gmx.at (Christoph Valentin)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 10:41:17 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
In-Reply-To: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>
References: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>

>> Feedback welcome. How important is this to authors and applications?

This is just my private opinion: I think it is very important to authors and applications.

Reason: Rich, developed countries/companies can afford to cope with open source data models, because they can make "big money" with the surrounding services (writing books, consultants, .....), but poor, developing countries/companies need to make "little money" with the help of protected models.

Just my private opinion, as I said. I can be wrong.


From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 13 07:59:47 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:59:47 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
In-Reply-To: <trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
References: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>,
	<trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W69BEE35A00C0E60D29D77FB6610@phx.gbl>

Customer-specific designs and industrial part designs may benefit from secure models.
-Doug
more..
Some content is custom for a single customer, requiring several days, weeks or person-years of effort to design. The customer may want to see the design before writing the cheque. Making the design harder to reverse engineer by a competitor or the customer would 'smooth transactions'. Examples:
- home/building design. ?has a VR component that allows the designer to bundle the viewer and CAD model into a .exe to send to the customer
http://www.sema-soft.com/en/produkt/visu/frameset.htm

- industrial training simulators: in Canada if an industrial worker is killed on the job, a provincial government may order more training, and sometimes custom VR style training simulator projects are the best training method, and are contracted out
http://www.3dinternet.com/

Industrial parts catalog entries - ngrain had a voxel viewer that was popular for catelogs in the oilpatch because it was hard (for a competitor) to reverse engineer a part design from voxels, yet a engineering company could see all parts from different mfgs/suppliers assembled together when designing integrated systems.
http://www.ngrain.com/products/industrial-applications/

----------------------------------------
> From: christoph.valentin at gmx.at
> To: brutzman at nps.edu
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 10:41:17 +0100
> CC: consortium at web3d.org; x3d-public at web3d.org
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
>
>>> Feedback welcome. How important is this to authors and applications?
>
> This is just my private opinion: I think it is very important to authors and applications.
>
> Reason: Rich, developed countries/companies can afford to cope with open source data models, because they can make "big money" with the surrounding services (writing books, consultants, .....), but poor, developing countries/companies need to make "little money" with the help of protected models.
>
> Just my private opinion, as I said. I can be wrong.
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
 		 	   		  

From brutzman at nps.edu  Sat Dec 13 14:36:55 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 14:36:55 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3d-edit-developers] X3D-Edit release
 announcement: bug fixes, availability on Surface tablet
In-Reply-To: <547929C1.5090700@nps.edu>
References: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu> <547929C1.5090700@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <548CBF87.6020307@nps.edu>

On 11/28/2014 6:04 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
> X3D-Edit is an open-source Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics authoring tool for simple error-free editing, authoring and validation of X3D scenes.
>      https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit
>   [...]
> - First tablet: tested satisfactorily using a Microsoft Surface 3 tablet under Windows 8 works well (hey X3D-Edit on the go!)

Here are some better images showing that capability in action.

	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditMicrosoftSurfaceScreenshot.png

	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/images/X3D-EditMicrosoftSurfacePhotograph.jpg

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


From maratow at noegenesis.com  Sat Dec 13 15:16:52 2014
From: maratow at noegenesis.com (Michael Aratow)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 15:16:52 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
In-Reply-To: <trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
References: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>
	<trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
Message-ID: <548CC8E4.9060602@noegenesis.com>

You are not wrong, in fact, you are right on a global scale. Providing 
authors and developers with a way to protect their creations is what 
stimulated this email. And, it is authors and developers everywhere, 
regardless of the stage of development of their country!

On 12/13/14, 1:41 AM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>>> Feedback welcome. How important is this to authors and applications?
> This is just my private opinion: I think it is very important to authors and applications.
>
> Reason: Rich, developed countries/companies can afford to cope with open source data models, because they can make "big money" with the surrounding services (writing books, consultants, .....), but poor, developing countries/companies need to make "little money" with the help of protected models.
>
> Just my private opinion, as I said. I can be wrong.
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>



From info at 3dnetproductions.com  Sat Dec 13 19:24:52 2014
From: info at 3dnetproductions.com (GLG)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:24:52 -0500
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
In-Reply-To: <trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
References: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>
	<trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
Message-ID: <019c01d0174d$8bd16160$a3742420$@com>

If this is a new thread, I did not see original/previous message(s).
Replying to Christoph here:

My opinion is that security capabilities can be extremely important to all
countries/companies. How else can intellectual property be protected if
anyone wishes to do so? Not every business model can abide to open source.
There is also an inherent need for security and fraud protection for many
types of applications. Without the ability to fulfill  either one of these
needs, X3D would simply not be an option in many scenarios. I view world
encryption as essential but only a part of the solution, SSL
support/compatibilty has to come into play for real protection. Lauren, 

-----Original Message-----
From: X3D-Public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of
Christoph Valentin
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 4:41 AM
To: Don Brutzman
Cc: Web3D Consortium Members; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs

>> Feedback welcome. How important is this to authors and applications?

This is just my private opinion: I think it is very important to authors and
applications.

Reason: Rich, developed countries/companies can afford to cope with open
source data models, because they can make "big money" with the surrounding
services (writing books, consultants, .....), but poor, developing
countries/companies need to make "little money" with the help of protected
models.

Just my private opinion, as I said. I can be wrong.

_______________________________________________
X3D-Public mailing list
X3D-Public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org



From cris.lacumba at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 01:12:02 2014
From: cris.lacumba at gmail.com (Cris Lacumba)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:12:02 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
Message-ID: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello to all,

I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of
them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment)
How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet?

Thanks in advance

Best regards

Cris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141215/ade3a0de/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: footprint2D.png
Type: image/png
Size: 15597 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141215/ade3a0de/attachment.png>

From vmarchetti at ameritech.net  Mon Dec 15 05:37:31 2014
From: vmarchetti at ameritech.net (Vincent Marchetti)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 08:37:31 -0500
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <069BC823-3BAD-4CFD-BD78-2F3742E9ECD9@ameritech.net>

Cris

By adding extra sides to your footprint, (see attached)  connecting the internal holes to the outer boundary, you can convert your polygon to a simple polygon, with no internal holes, and then represent that polygon with an IndexedFaceSet

The NurbsTrimmedSurface node allows can represent such a surface with internal holes, but this node is unsupported by most X3D browsers, and it is not supported in X3DOM.


> On Dec 15, 2014, at 4:12 AM, Cris Lacumba <cris.lacumba at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello to all,
> 
> I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment)
> How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Cris 
> <footprint2D.png>_______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org

Vincent Marchetti
vmarchetti at ameritech.net



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141215/5750b8a9/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: footprint_open.png
Type: image/png
Size: 20835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141215/5750b8a9/attachment-0001.png>

From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 15 05:47:10 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:47:10 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W601243858F43DB039B0EF7B66F0@phx.gbl>

Solution 1:
If working in something like Blender, select 2 opposite edges of the big rectangle and do Edge Split to subdivide the big rectangle, and drag the new edge to one side of your hole. Do the split 2 x 2 = 4 times for each hole, splitting the big rectangle into 9 faces. Then delete the face in the middle. When you export to X3D, that deleted face won't have indexes in the index list.
-Doug

________________________________
> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:12:02 +0100 
> From: cris.lacumba at gmail.com 
> To: x3d-public at web3d.org 
> Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
>  
> Hello to all, 
>  
> I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of  
> them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment) 
> How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet? 
>  
> Thanks in advance 
>  
> Best regards 
>  
> Cris 
>  
> _______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list  
> X3D-Public at web3d.org  
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
 		 	   		  

From web3d at realism.com  Mon Dec 15 07:19:14 2014
From: web3d at realism.com (Leonard Daly)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:19:14 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <548EFBF2.2020803@realism.com>

Cris Lacumba,

There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of a 
shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do with the 
shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you have available for 
your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the polygons must be convex 
(no "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems will convert the IFS to 
triangles, so if you want detailed control, you might want to create 
your own triangles. This can be particularly important if any polygon is 
a saddle point. Which way do you triangulate - top-left to bottom-right 
or top-right to bottom-left.


    -1          +1
       +-------+
       |       |
       |       |
       +-------+
     +1        -1


You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see 
http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/).

Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these works for 
you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used and the tools 
you have available, other specific solutions can be offered.


Leonard Daly



> Hello to all,
>
> I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some 
> of them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment)
> How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Best regards
>
> Cris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org


-- 
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141215/c959be8c/attachment.html>

From cris.lacumba at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 22:43:51 2014
From: cris.lacumba at gmail.com (Cris Lacumba)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:43:51 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <548EFBF2.2020803@realism.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<548EFBF2.2020803@realism.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3UkD5Md_3Z3kryy9UNpHDtR8RxxxtFJvPfR1eL5QCBb_Uifg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

The idea is to present an entire city in 2D with X3D, so I can't do a
manual work with Blender because is not feasible.
The solution of adding extra sides as Vincent said it can be easier to
develop but is not easy.

I only need the footprint to visualize. Textures are not going to be used
for now. 2D geometries are supported in X3DOM? Beucase I have to visualize
the obtained X3D using X3DOM.

Thanks again!

Best regards

2014-12-15 16:19 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly <web3d at realism.com>:
>
>  Cris Lacumba,
>
> There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of a
> shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do with the
> shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you have available for
> your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the polygons must be convex (no
> "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems will convert the IFS to triangles,
> so if you want detailed control, you might want to create your own
> triangles. This can be particularly important if any polygon is a saddle
> point. Which way do you triangulate - top-left to bottom-right or top-right
> to bottom-left.
>
>
>    -1          +1
>       +-------+
>       |       |
>       |       |
>       +-------+
>     +1        -1
>
>
> You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/).
>
> Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these works for
> you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used and the tools you
> have available, other specific solutions can be offered.
>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>    Hello to all,
>
>  I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of
> them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment)
>  How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Best regards
>
>  Cris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing listX3D-Public at web3d.orghttp://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>
>
> --
>  *Leonard Daly*
> X3D Co-Chair
> Cloud Consultant
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141216/f508bb23/attachment.html>

From brutzman at nps.edu  Tue Dec 16 02:34:23 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 02:34:23 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] on demand loading of inline
 nodes; security implications
In-Reply-To: <59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0BBA5F72@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>
References: <CAKdk67sTuE8M2825LpUXp3svJ20QRsODQ4gPjjj+g6HDMEudBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0BBA5F72@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>
Message-ID: <54900AAF.9060604@nps.edu>

cc: x3d-public list

Thanks for the details Max and Andreas.  Yes the original motivation for controlled loading was for controlling performance of large tile trees.  (GeoInline was then merged into Inline for simplicity.)

One of our planned tasks for the coming year, as part of X3D v3.4 development, is to perform a security review of the full X3D specification.

Controlling Inline loading definitely sounds like a feature that authors might want to use for security purposes, allowing authors to give users strict control of when a scene retrieval or query is made.  There are a number of cases where users want to control when their web browser retrieves content.

I expect that we will begin collecting such issues of interest on the wiki and making X3D Security a weekly topic on the working group teleconferences.  Further insights are always welcome.


On 11/27/2014 4:30 AM, Limper, Max wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don?t think it was a design decision not to support the ?load? field. It?s simply not implemented.
>
> Regards,
>
> Max
>
> *Von:*Andreas Plesch [mailto:andreasplesch at netscape.net]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 19:13
> *An:* x3dom-developer mlist
> *Betreff:* [x3dom-developers] on demand loading of inline nodes
>
> For large scenes it would be convenient or necessary to control the loading (downloading and adding to the scene graph) of provided inline nodes either by x3d facilities or by javascript. Is this possible ? Is there then a way to unload inline nodes when they are not required anymore ? Unloading would be different from removing the node completely in that only the previously added (children) nodes from the inline scene are removed but not the inline node itself.
>
> I noticed in the example below that all inline nodes used in a LOD are downloaded and added to the scene even when they are not yet in range:
>
> https://googledrive.com/host/0BwIhFzkLaQ9XSWh1cGZRdlBZZm8/Mars.xhtml
>
> The initial loading of the inline nodes happens early when the node is first encountered. It is necessary that this is the default behaviour for nodes in general. To override this, inline nodes have a field called 'load' which is supposed to prevent immediate loading when set to false but it does not seem to be supported. If it is not, was there a design decision to not have this capability ?
>
> Thanks, Andreas

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


From brutzman at nps.edu  Tue Dec 16 02:48:01 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 02:48:01 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
In-Reply-To: <019c01d0174d$8bd16160$a3742420$@com>
References: <548B27F7.7070905@nps.edu>
	<trinity-1598e654-051e-4893-bf2c-315669ffa598-1418463677525@3capp-gmx-bs48>
	<019c01d0174d$8bd16160$a3742420$@com>
Message-ID: <54900DE1.7050104@nps.edu>

Discussion on the Web3D Board of Directors teleconference today noted these important points.  Thanks.

I expect that we will soon begin collecting a number of security issues as part of our X3D v3.4 evolution, and adding this as a weekly topic on our working group teleconferences.

Insights examples contributions and participation are always welcome.

On 12/13/2014 7:24 PM, GLG wrote:
> If this is a new thread, I did not see original/previous message(s).

http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2014-December/003062.html

> Replying to Christoph here:
>
> My opinion is that security capabilities can be extremely important to all
> countries/companies. How else can intellectual property be protected if
> anyone wishes to do so? Not every business model can abide to open source.
> There is also an inherent need for security and fraud protection for many
> types of applications. Without the ability to fulfill  either one of these
> needs, X3D would simply not be an option in many scenarios. I view world
> encryption as essential but only a part of the solution, SSL
> support/compatibilty has to come into play for real protection. Lauren,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: X3D-Public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of
> Christoph Valentin
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 4:41 AM
> To: Don Brutzman
> Cc: Web3D Consortium Members; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] X3D Security capabilities and needs
>
>>> Feedback welcome. How important is this to authors and applications?
>
> This is just my private opinion: I think it is very important to authors and
> applications.
>
> Reason: Rich, developed countries/companies can afford to cope with open
> source data models, because they can make "big money" with the surrounding
> services (writing books, consultants, .....), but poor, developing
> countries/companies need to make "little money" with the help of protected
> models.
>
> Just my private opinion, as I said. I can be wrong.

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman


From andreasplesch at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 07:22:59 2014
From: andreasplesch at gmail.com (Andreas Plesch)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 10:22:59 -0500
Subject: [X3D-Public] [x3dom-developers] on demand loading of inline
	nodes; security implications
In-Reply-To: <54900AAF.9060604@nps.edu>
References: <CAKdk67sTuE8M2825LpUXp3svJ20QRsODQ4gPjjj+g6HDMEudBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0BBA5F72@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>
	<54900AAF.9060604@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdk67uWvLTw6==GjE12ypDqiKvsn7AqfP0f-Ck9PwzcnXeKhw@mail.gmail.com>

Looking into loading and unloading of nodes, I understand that javascript
does not have a concept of explicit unloading. It seems the most an author
or user could do is to assign a null value to all references to an object
(node) and hope that the javascript interpreter of  the browser removes the
object from memory in the next garbage collection. In terms of security in
the case of x3dom this may mean that it will be hard to guarantee that
content once it is loaded will not be accessible with some dedication at a
later time.
As a point of discussion security may be divided into security on the
server (content provider, see Sony trouble), security during transmission
(ssl), security in the browser (client, decryption), and DRM (digital
rights management). There are also levels of security: government strength,
industrial strength, consumer strength, light.
Some thoughts, Andreas



On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:34 AM, Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> cc: x3d-public list
>
> Thanks for the details Max and Andreas.  Yes the original motivation for
> controlled loading was for controlling performance of large tile trees.
> (GeoInline was then merged into Inline for simplicity.)
>
> One of our planned tasks for the coming year, as part of X3D v3.4
> development, is to perform a security review of the full X3D specification.
>
> Controlling Inline loading definitely sounds like a feature that authors
> might want to use for security purposes, allowing authors to give users
> strict control of when a scene retrieval or query is made.  There are a
> number of cases where users want to control when their web browser
> retrieves content.
>
> I expect that we will begin collecting such issues of interest on the wiki
> and making X3D Security a weekly topic on the working group
> teleconferences.  Further insights are always welcome.
>
>
> On 11/27/2014 4:30 AM, Limper, Max wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don?t think it was a design decision not to support the ?load? field.
>> It?s simply not implemented.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>> *Von:*Andreas Plesch [mailto:andreasplesch at netscape.net]
>> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 26. November 2014 19:13
>> *An:* x3dom-developer mlist
>> *Betreff:* [x3dom-developers] on demand loading of inline nodes
>>
>> For large scenes it would be convenient or necessary to control the
>> loading (downloading and adding to the scene graph) of provided inline
>> nodes either by x3d facilities or by javascript. Is this possible ? Is
>> there then a way to unload inline nodes when they are not required anymore
>> ? Unloading would be different from removing the node completely in that
>> only the previously added (children) nodes from the inline scene are
>> removed but not the inline node itself.
>>
>> I noticed in the example below that all inline nodes used in a LOD are
>> downloaded and added to the scene even when they are not yet in range:
>>
>> https://googledrive.com/host/0BwIhFzkLaQ9XSWh1cGZRdlBZZm8/Mars.xhtml
>>
>> The initial loading of the inline nodes happens early when the node is
>> first encountered. It is necessary that this is the default behaviour for
>> nodes in general. To override this, inline nodes have a field called 'load'
>> which is supposed to prevent immediate loading when set to false but it
>> does not seem to be supported. If it is not, was there a design decision to
>> not have this capability ?
>>
>> Thanks, Andreas
>>
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/
> brutzman
>



-- 
Andreas Plesch
39 Barbara Rd.
Waltham, MA 02453
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141216/63c94c5c/attachment-0001.html>

From web3d at realism.com  Tue Dec 16 07:23:42 2014
From: web3d at realism.com (Leonard Daly)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:42 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <CAF3UkD5Md_3Z3kryy9UNpHDtR8RxxxtFJvPfR1eL5QCBb_Uifg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>	<548EFBF2.2020803@realism.com>
	<CAF3UkD5Md_3Z3kryy9UNpHDtR8RxxxtFJvPfR1eL5QCBb_Uifg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54904E7E.6040101@realism.com>

Cris,

There is an Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) working on a definition for 
work with cities and buildings called CityGML 
(http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/citygml). The Web3D Consortium 
has a liaison relationship with them. They may have worked on a lot of 
what you are trying to do. There are other groups within OGC that may 
also provide useful information. The Web3D Consortium is sponsoring a 
city modeling competition. The details are at 
http://www.web3d.org/competition/city-modeling-2015.

X3DOM V1.3 started to include 2D geometry nodes. I do not know their 
current state. The current node list is at 
http://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html. See 
http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/ 
for examples in X3D of all of the 2D nodes see 
http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/.


Leonard Daly
Co-Chair, X3D WG


> Hello again,
>
> The idea is to present an entire city in 2D with X3D, so I can't do a 
> manual work with Blender because is not feasible.
> The solution of adding extra sides as Vincent said it can be easier to 
> develop but is not easy.
>
> I only need the footprint to visualize. Textures are not going to be 
> used for now. 2D geometries are supported in X3DOM? Beucase I have to 
> visualize the obtained X3D using X3DOM.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Best regards
>
> 2014-12-15 16:19 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly <web3d at realism.com 
> <mailto:web3d at realism.com>>:
>
>     Cris Lacumba,
>
>     There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of
>     a shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do
>     with the shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you
>     have available for your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the
>     polygons must be convex (no "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems
>     will convert the IFS to triangles, so if you want detailed
>     control, you might want to create your own triangles. This can be
>     particularly important if any polygon is a saddle point. Which way
>     do you triangulate - top-left to bottom-right or top-right to
>     bottom-left.
>
>
>        -1          +1
>           +-------+
>           |       |
>           |       |
>           +-------+
>         +1        -1
>
>
>     You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see
>     http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/).
>
>
>     Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these
>     works for you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used
>     and the tools you have available, other specific solutions can be
>     offered.
>
>
>     Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>>     Hello to all,
>>
>>     I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However,
>>     some of them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the
>>     attachment)
>>     How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet?
>>
>>     Thanks in advance
>>
>>     Best regards
>>
>>     Cris
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     X3D-Public mailing list
>>     X3D-Public at web3d.org  <mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org>
>>     http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>
>     -- 
>     *Leonard Daly*
>     X3D Co-Chair
>     Cloud Consultant
>     President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     X3D-Public mailing list
>     X3D-Public at web3d.org <mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org>
>     http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>


-- 
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141216/8f2312df/attachment.html>

From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 07:18:46 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 08:18:46 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <54904E7E.6040101@realism.com>
References: <CAF3UkD4s+CdY6zmK1=H1sf6TR3Z6zNZfVrefvXL9g8fgmGgOLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<548EFBF2.2020803@realism.com>,
	<CAF3UkD5Md_3Z3kryy9UNpHDtR8RxxxtFJvPfR1eL5QCBb_Uifg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<54904E7E.6040101@realism.com>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W72A5383C2BF9F431D5C2DB66D0@phx.gbl>

assuming you have polygons defined for the outer block rectangles and inner holes, but no connection between them / nothing to say which is which, except the hole polygons would be located inside the block polygons
Solution #2?
translate each block and its holes into a single character glyph in a font file. Then position and draw each block as a Text node with one character.
Thinking: font characters can have holes, as in O P B 9 Q 0 8, and are 2D.?
-Doug
more..
I wonder if there could be a 2D geometry node for something like this. In some web3d browsers, the font glyphs get converted to triangles, and that process doesn't know a priori which glyph polygons are inside holes or outside outlines. That process could be extracted into a 2D node that takes a series of polygons, and renders as faces with holes.

Solution #3
batch process your polygons to generated IndexFaceSet or TriangleSet2D:
1. intersect each polygon with all other polygons, and insert the intersection points into each affected polygon
2. delaunay triangulate all the points of all the polygons in one batch
3. follow each polygon in the triangles, swapping quad bisectors to align with the polygon as you go (un-delaunay)
4. do point-in-polygon test for each triangle (its center of gravity) using the plumbline algorithm against all the polygons and delete the triangle if its plumblne intersects polygon segments an even number of times: 0, 2, 4 ..



________________________________
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:42 -0800 
> From: web3d at realism.com 
> To: cris.lacumba at gmail.com 
> CC: x3d-public at web3d.org 
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
>  
> Cris, 
>  
> There is an Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) working on a definition  
> for work with cities and buildings called CityGML  
> (http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/citygml). The Web3D Consortium  
> has a liaison relationship with them. They may have worked on a lot of  
> what you are trying to do. There are other groups within OGC that may  
> also provide useful information. The Web3D Consortium is sponsoring a  
> city modeling competition. The details are at  
> http://www.web3d.org/competition/city-modeling-2015. 
>  
> X3DOM V1.3 started to include 2D geometry nodes. I do not know their  
> current state. The current node list is at  
> http://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html. See  
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/  
> for examples in X3D of all of the 2D nodes see  
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/. 
>  
>  
> Leonard Daly 
> Co-Chair, X3D WG 
>  
>  
> Hello again, 
>  
> The idea is to present an entire city in 2D with X3D, so I can't do a  
> manual work with Blender because is not feasible. 
> The solution of adding extra sides as Vincent said it can be easier to  
> develop but is not easy. 
>  
> I only need the footprint to visualize. Textures are not going to be  
> used for now. 2D geometries are supported in X3DOM? Beucase I have to  
> visualize the obtained X3D using X3DOM. 
>  
> Thanks again! 
>  
> Best regards 
>  
> 2014-12-15 16:19 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly  
> <web3d at realism.com<mailto:web3d at realism.com>>: 
> Cris Lacumba, 
>  
> There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of a  
> shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do with the  
> shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you have available  
> for your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the polygons must be  
> convex (no "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems will convert the IFS  
> to triangles, so if you want detailed control, you might want to create  
> your own triangles. This can be particularly important if any polygon  
> is a saddle point. Which way do you triangulate - top-left to  
> bottom-right or top-right to bottom-left. 
>  
>  
>     -1          +1 
>        +-------+ 
>        |       | 
>        |       | 
>        +-------+ 
>      +1        -1 
>  
>  
> You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see  
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/). 
>  
> Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these works  
> for you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used and the  
> tools you have available, other specific solutions can be offered. 
>  
>  
> Leonard Daly 
>  
>  
>  
> Hello to all, 
>  
> I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of  
> them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment) 
> How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet? 
>  
> Thanks in advance 
>  
> Best regards 
>  
> Cris 
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> X3D-Public mailing list 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> Leonard Daly 
> X3D Co-Chair 
> Cloud Consultant 
> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> X3D-Public mailing list 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> Leonard Daly 
> X3D Co-Chair 
> Cloud Consultant 
> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
>  
> _______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list  
> X3D-Public at web3d.org  
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
 		 	   		  

From eric at geovrml.com  Wed Dec 17 07:50:04 2014
From: eric at geovrml.com (eric)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:50:04 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
Message-ID: <9oqk9u1femvwogifjyc948tl.1418830816020@email.android.com>

Usually in GIS, this kind of problem is managed by digitisation order: ccw for the outer shell of your footprint and cw for inner holes. Recursively, for each contained polygon/hole the digitisation direction changes.
Recursive constrained Delaunay triangulation is then the answer, digitisation direction gives you the hint for identifying holes and polygons on the go.
Eric.


Envoy? depuis un mobile Samsung

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : doug sanden <highaspirations at hotmail.com> 
Date :  
A :  
Cc : x3d-public at web3d.org 
Objet : Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
 
assuming you have polygons defined for the outer block rectangles and inner holes, but no connection between them / nothing to say which is which, except the hole polygons would be located inside the block polygons
Solution #2?
translate each block and its holes into a single character glyph in a font file. Then position and draw each block as a Text node with one character.
Thinking: font characters can have holes, as in O P B 9 Q 0 8, and are 2D.?
-Doug
more..
I wonder if there could be a 2D geometry node for something like this. In some web3d browsers, the font glyphs get converted to triangles, and that process doesn't know a priori which glyph polygons are inside holes or outside outlines. That process could be extracted into a 2D node that takes a series of polygons, and renders as faces with holes.

Solution #3
batch process your polygons to generated IndexFaceSet or TriangleSet2D:
1. intersect each polygon with all other polygons, and insert the intersection points into each affected polygon
2. delaunay triangulate all the points of all the polygons in one batch
3. follow each polygon in the triangles, swapping quad bisectors to align with the polygon as you go (un-delaunay)
4. do point-in-polygon test for each triangle (its center of gravity) using the plumbline algorithm against all the polygons and delete the triangle if its plumblne intersects polygon segments an even number of times: 0, 2, 4 ..



________________________________
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:42 -0800 
> From: web3d at realism.com 
> To: cris.lacumba at gmail.com 
> CC: x3d-public at web3d.org 
> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
>? 
> Cris, 
>? 
> There is an Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) working on a definition? 
> for work with cities and buildings called CityGML? 
> (http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/citygml). The Web3D Consortium? 
> has a liaison relationship with them. They may have worked on a lot of? 
> what you are trying to do. There are other groups within OGC that may? 
> also provide useful information. The Web3D Consortium is sponsoring a? 
> city modeling competition. The details are at? 
> http://www.web3d.org/competition/city-modeling-2015. 
>? 
> X3DOM V1.3 started to include 2D geometry nodes. I do not know their? 
> current state. The current node list is at? 
> http://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html. See? 
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/? 
> for examples in X3D of all of the 2D nodes see? 
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/. 
>? 
>? 
> Leonard Daly 
> Co-Chair, X3D WG 
>? 
>? 
> Hello again, 
>? 
> The idea is to present an entire city in 2D with X3D, so I can't do a? 
> manual work with Blender because is not feasible. 
> The solution of adding extra sides as Vincent said it can be easier to? 
> develop but is not easy. 
>? 
> I only need the footprint to visualize. Textures are not going to be? 
> used for now. 2D geometries are supported in X3DOM? Beucase I have to? 
> visualize the obtained X3D using X3DOM. 
>? 
> Thanks again! 
>? 
> Best regards 
>? 
> 2014-12-15 16:19 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly? 
> <web3d at realism.com<mailto:web3d at realism.com>>: 
> Cris Lacumba, 
>? 
> There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of a? 
> shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do with the? 
> shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you have available? 
> for your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the polygons must be? 
> convex (no "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems will convert the IFS? 
> to triangles, so if you want detailed control, you might want to create? 
> your own triangles. This can be particularly important if any polygon? 
> is a saddle point. Which way do you triangulate - top-left to? 
> bottom-right or top-right to bottom-left. 
>? 
>? 
>???? -1????????? +1 
>??????? +-------+ 
>??????? |?????? | 
>??????? |?????? | 
>??????? +-------+ 
>????? +1??????? -1 
>? 
>? 
> You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see? 
> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/). 
>? 
> Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these works? 
> for you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used and the? 
> tools you have available, other specific solutions can be offered. 
>? 
>? 
> Leonard Daly 
>? 
>? 
>? 
> Hello to all, 
>? 
> I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of? 
> them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment) 
> How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet? 
>? 
> Thanks in advance 
>? 
> Best regards 
>? 
> Cris 
>? 
>? 
>? 
> _______________________________________________ 
> X3D-Public mailing list 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
>? 
>? 
>? 
> --? 
> Leonard Daly 
> X3D Co-Chair 
> Cloud Consultant 
> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
>? 
> _______________________________________________ 
> X3D-Public mailing list 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
>? 
>? 
>? 
> --? 
> Leonard Daly 
> X3D Co-Chair 
> Cloud Consultant 
> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
>? 
> _______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list? 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org? 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
?? ? 
_______________________________________________
X3D-Public mailing list
X3D-Public at web3d.org
http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141217/c47e4a01/attachment-0001.html>

From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 18 08:57:03 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:57:03 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D
In-Reply-To: <9oqk9u1femvwogifjyc948tl.1418830816020@email.android.com>
References: <9oqk9u1femvwogifjyc948tl.1418830816020@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W63A94D1E875EFFF50013BCB66A0@phx.gbl>

Solution #5 Rasterization
Steps:?
1. split up your city area into mapsheet rectangles, decide on a pixel size
2. for each mapsheet?
a) set up transform from polygon coordinates to mapsheet image coordinates
b) use brezenhams algorithm to convert polygon line segments into pixel hits on mapsheet
c) load each raster mapsheet into an image program and manually floodfill
-Doug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm

________________________________
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:50:04 +0100 
> Subject: RE : Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
> From: eric at geovrml.com 
> To: highaspirations at hotmail.com 
> CC: x3d-public at web3d.org 
>  
> Usually in GIS, this kind of problem is managed by digitisation order:  
> ccw for the outer shell of your footprint and cw for inner holes.  
> Recursively, for each contained polygon/hole the digitisation direction  
> changes. 
> Recursive constrained Delaunay triangulation is then the answer,  
> digitisation direction gives you the hint for identifying holes and  
> polygons on the go. 
> Eric. 
>  
>  
> Envoy? depuis un mobile Samsung 
>  
>  
>  
> -------- Message d'origine -------- 
> De : doug sanden <highaspirations at hotmail.com> 
> Date : 
> A : 
> Cc : x3d-public at web3d.org 
> Objet : Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
>  
>  
> assuming you have polygons defined for the outer block rectangles and  
> inner holes, but no connection between them / nothing to say which is  
> which, except the hole polygons would be located inside the block  
> polygons 
> Solution #2 
> translate each block and its holes into a single character glyph in a  
> font file. Then position and draw each block as a Text node with one  
> character. 
> Thinking: font characters can have holes, as in O P B 9 Q 0 8, and are 2D. 
> -Doug 
> more.. 
> I wonder if there could be a 2D geometry node for something like this.  
> In some web3d browsers, the font glyphs get converted to triangles, and  
> that process doesn't know a priori which glyph polygons are inside  
> holes or outside outlines. That process could be extracted into a 2D  
> node that takes a series of polygons, and renders as faces with holes. 
>  
> Solution #3 
> batch process your polygons to generated IndexFaceSet or TriangleSet2D: 
> 1. intersect each polygon with all other polygons, and insert the  
> intersection points into each affected polygon 
> 2. delaunay triangulate all the points of all the polygons in one batch 
> 3. follow each polygon in the triangles, swapping quad bisectors to  
> align with the polygon as you go (un-delaunay) 
> 4. do point-in-polygon test for each triangle (its center of gravity)  
> using the plumbline algorithm against all the polygons and delete the  
> triangle if its plumblne intersects polygon segments an even number of  
> times: 0, 2, 4 .. 
>  
>  
>  
> ________________________________ 
> > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:42 -0800 
> > From: web3d at realism.com 
> > To: cris.lacumba at gmail.com 
> > CC: x3d-public at web3d.org 
> > Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] 2D footprint with holes in X3D 
> > 
> > Cris, 
> > 
> > There is an Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) working on a definition 
> > for work with cities and buildings called CityGML 
> > (http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/citygml). The Web3D Consortium 
> > has a liaison relationship with them. They may have worked on a lot of 
> > what you are trying to do. There are other groups within OGC that may 
> > also provide useful information. The Web3D Consortium is sponsoring a 
> > city modeling competition. The details are at 
> > http://www.web3d.org/competition/city-modeling-2015. 
> > 
> > X3DOM V1.3 started to include 2D geometry nodes. I do not know their 
> > current state. The current node list is at 
> > http://doc.x3dom.org/author/nodes.html. See 
> > http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/ 
> > for examples in X3D of all of the 2D nodes see 
> > http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/. 
> > 
> > 
> > Leonard Daly 
> > Co-Chair, X3D WG 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello again, 
> > 
> > The idea is to present an entire city in 2D with X3D, so I can't do a 
> > manual work with Blender because is not feasible. 
> > The solution of adding extra sides as Vincent said it can be easier to 
> > develop but is not easy. 
> > 
> > I only need the footprint to visualize. Textures are not going to be 
> > used for now. 2D geometries are supported in X3DOM? Beucase I have to 
> > visualize the obtained X3D using X3DOM. 
> > 
> > Thanks again! 
> > 
> > Best regards 
> > 
> > 2014-12-15 16:19 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly 
> > <web3d at realism.com<mailto:web3d at realism.com>>: 
> > Cris Lacumba, 
> > 
> > There are a lot of ways to construct a polygonal representation of a 
> > shape. The way you choose depends on what you are going to do with the 
> > shape, how it needs to be textured, and the tools you have available 
> > for your development. For IndexedFaceSet all of the polygons must be 
> > convex (no "L" shaped ones). Most graphic systems will convert the IFS 
> > to triangles, so if you want detailed control, you might want to create 
> > your own triangles. This can be particularly important if any polygon 
> > is a saddle point. Which way do you triangulate - top-left to 
> > bottom-right or top-right to bottom-left. 
> > 
> > 
> >     -1          +1 
> >        +-------+ 
> >        |       | 
> >        |       | 
> >        +-------+ 
> >      +1        -1 
> > 
> > 
> > You may also wish to look into the 2D shapes (see 
> > http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter10-Geometry2D/). 
> > 
> > Vince and Doug have offered two solutions. If neither of these works 
> > for you, please tell us more how the footprint will be used and the 
> > tools you have available, other specific solutions can be offered. 
> > 
> > 
> > Leonard Daly 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello to all, 
> > 
> > I'm trying to represent the 2D footprint of a building.However, some of 
> > them have patios or holes inside the footprint. (see the attachment) 
> > How can I represent that using IndexedFaceSet? 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance 
> > 
> > Best regards 
> > 
> > Cris 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > X3D-Public mailing list 
> > X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Leonard Daly 
> > X3D Co-Chair 
> > Cloud Consultant 
> > President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > X3D-Public mailing list 
> > X3D-Public at web3d.org<mailto:X3D-Public at web3d.org> 
> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Leonard Daly 
> > X3D Co-Chair 
> > Cloud Consultant 
> > President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list 
> > X3D-Public at web3d.org 
> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> X3D-Public mailing list 
> X3D-Public at web3d.org 
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org 
 		 	   		  

From max.limper at igd.fraunhofer.de  Thu Dec 18 09:12:25 2014
From: max.limper at igd.fraunhofer.de (Limper, Max)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:12:25 +0000
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3DOM 1.6.1 released
In-Reply-To: <59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0A4DE29C@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>
References: <59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0A4DE29C@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>
Message-ID: <59A2F7345900E2478F1FD18FABBBCAAE0BBB7CF0@EXMBS1.ad.igd.fraunhofer.de>

Dear X3D & X3DOM community,

as a special holiday gift, we are happy and proud to announce stable release 1.6.2 of X3DOM.
This is primarily a maintenance update, and recommended for all 1.6.1 users.

Besides some fixes and enhancements, there are also a few new features.
You can find the full release post, including links to two new examples, here:
http://www.x3dom.org/?p=3992

Have fun, and thanks for using X3DOM!

Best Regards,

Max & the whole X3DOM Maintenance Team

--
Dipl.-Inform. Max Limper
Visual Computing System Technologies
Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Graphische Datenverarbeitung IGD
Fraunhoferstra?e 5 | 64283 Darmstadt
Telefon +49 6151 155-554 |Fax -196
max.limper at igd.fraunhofer.de<mailto:max.limper at igd.fraunhofer.de>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141218/a9a90ad6/attachment.html>

From brutzman at nps.edu  Fri Dec 19 08:55:41 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 08:55:41 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] =?utf-8?q?=E2=96=B6_DIY_WebGL_with_Blender_and_x3d_-?=
 =?utf-8?q?_YouTube?=
Message-ID: <5494588D.8020902@nps.edu>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=177ickncsLY


From holger.seelig at yahoo.de  Sun Dec 21 09:08:08 2014
From: holger.seelig at yahoo.de (Holger Seelig)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:08:08 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] *** TITANIA RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT ***
Message-ID: <5496FE78.4040203@yahoo.de>

*** TITANIA RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT *** TITANIA RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Leipzig 21. December 2014: Titania, a free, open source X3D Graphics
authoring tool and browser for Ubuntu, has released today the new
version 0.7.6. This release introduces the new and powerful Keyframe
Animation Editor, the Color Per Vertex Editor and last but not least the
Texture Mapping Editor.

For screen-shots and a complete and detailed description of this release
have a look at:
   http://titania.create3000.de/release-notes/076/

We would like to draw your attention that if you run in trouble with
Titania please desperately file a bug at:
   https://bugs.launchpad.net/titania

*** TITANIA RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT *** TITANIA RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT ***

-- 
Holger Seelig
Mediengestalter Digital ? Digital Media Designer

Scheffelstra?e 31a
04277 Leipzig
Germany

Cellular: +49 1577 147 26 11
E-Mail:   holger.seelig at yahoo.de
Web:      http://titania.create3000.de


From brutzman at nps.edu  Thu Dec 25 13:57:17 2014
From: brutzman at nps.edu (Don Brutzman)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:57:17 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] release announement:  X3D-Edit, X3D Validator,
	and Xj3D improvements
In-Reply-To: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu>
References: <52799E5D.2090207@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <549C883D.7090204@nps.edu>

X3D-Edit is an open-source Extensible 3D (X3D) Graphics authoring tool for simple error-free editing, authoring and validation of X3D scenes.
	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit

Download and autoupdate instructions:
	https://savage.nps.edu/X3D-Edit/#Downloads

Our holiday release includes several small but helpful fixes.
- New option under Shape node:  "Selectable Text" design pattern, which appends a semitransparent Box (that can be adjusted to make text selectable, and a TouchSensor which provides a tooltip description.
- Detailed error checking for ElevationGrid and GeoElevationGrid.

These latest validation improvements are also added to the X3D Validator, both internal to X3D-Edit and online.
	https://savage.nps.edu/X3dValidator

Tons of work on Xj3D fixes too.  Terry Norbraten and I have been doing a lot of "deep dive" debugging of X3D scenes, external prototypes, prototype declarations and Javascript.
- Catching and correcting a wide range of error exceptions, both at Xj3D player and Aviatrix3d renderer level.
- Reporting details when content errors occur, including line and column number in X3D scene source files.
- Corrected parser handling of TRUE/true and FALSE/false booleans in .x3dv ClassicVRML and .x3d XML file syntax.
- Using DeathTimer for improved handling of offline image rendering of viewpoints as .png images, to ensure problematic scenes actually finish.
   * A dark and evil class who is very impatient.  If it isn't told to stop in time it will kill the whole system.
   * Used with captureViewpoints in case the browser hangs.  We want the browser to still exit.
- Major addition is upgrading the internal Javascript engine to use the latest Mozilla Rhino library.
	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/Rhino
- All checked into Sourceforge, including Aviatrix3d mods.  Details currently at
	https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/developers.html#Xj3D
	https://sourceforge.net/p/xj3d/code/12077/tree/branches
	https://sourceforge.net/p/xj3d/code/HEAD/tree/branches/NPS
	https://sourceforge.net/p/xj3d/code/HEAD/tree/branches/Supporting_APIs

We look forward to further exploring candidate aviatrix3d modifications with lead author Justin Couch to achieve the best possible results.  Originally these had been a small set of tweaks to support Xj3D, but enough variation has emerged that we want to ensure everyone has access.
	https://sourceforge.net/p/xj3d/code/12077/tree//branches/Supporting_APIs/aviatrix3d/docs/RELEASE_NOTES

X3D-Edit/X3D Validator/Xj3D testing and usage continues.  Currently we are reshooting all images to the Savage X3D Examples archive to see if any version-control image diffs emerge in a few thousand viewpoint screenshots.  Archive updates to follow.

Further progress and new future work:  Terry exposed the autogeneration of Backus Naur Form (BNF) documentation for the Xj3D parsers - copies attached.  These will be interesting to compare to the regular context-free grammars in the X3D specifications.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Backus-Naur_Form

Example output for Selectable Text design pattern follows, you can check it out yourself in other X3D scenes and players.  Screenshots also attached.

     <!-- Selectable Text has transparent Box and TouchSensor description as a tooltip -->
     <Group>
       <Shape>
       <Text string='"Here are some" "lines of text..."' solid='false'>
         <FontStyle family='"SANS"' justify='"MIDDLE" "MIDDLE"' size='1' style='BOLD'/>
       </Text>
       <Appearance>
         <Material diffuseColor='0.9 0.9 0.9'/>
       </Appearance>
     </Shape>
       <Shape>
         <!-- Author TODO: to adjust transparent Box as text-selection assist, set width and height to match size, then set transparency='1' to make invisible.  -->
         <Box size='6.2 2 .001'/>
         <Appearance>
           <Material transparency='0.8'/>
         </Appearance>
       </Shape>
       <!-- Author TODO: for interactive scenes, the TouchSensor output is easily applied as an animation trigger by adding a DEF name and a connecting ROUTE. -->
       <TouchSensor description='enter user-tooltip description of selectable text here'/>
     </Group>

Wishing everyone a happy holiday.  Have fun with X3D-Edit, X3D Validator, and Xj3D!

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: SelectableTextExampleOutput.png
Type: image/png
Size: 20415 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141225/8eb089bf/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: X3D-EditShapePanelSelectableText.png
Type: image/png
Size: 57576 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141225/8eb089bf/attachment-0003.png>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141225/8eb089bf/attachment-0002.html>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141225/8eb089bf/attachment-0003.html>

From christoph.valentin at gmx.at  Sun Dec 28 14:51:22 2014
From: christoph.valentin at gmx.at (Christoph Valentin)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 23:51:22 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] Fw: 25th SMUOS Newsletter - a few bugfixes - new
	release
References: <trinity-16367ec1-f5a2-4c2c-b7ac-49fd5d4d896c-1419806936375@3capp-gmx-bs13>
Message-ID: <trinity-c45e9263-6dc2-41ad-8137-a63781b862aa-1419807082469@3capp-gmx-bs13>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141228/2de9eac2/attachment.html>

From roy.walmsley at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec 29 05:31:44 2014
From: roy.walmsley at ntlworld.com (Roy Walmsley)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:31:44 -0000
Subject: [X3D-Public] Comment on ISO/IEC IS 19775-1:2013 - DEF/USE
Message-ID: <002901d0236b$c9c6dbb0$5d549310$@ntlworld.com>


Hello all.


This, my first posting here, is a comment on the DEF/USE syntax within the
X3D specification. It is about the terminology used.


Paragraph 3.1.38 defines an 'instance' as a node created by the
instantiation process. So, consider the case where a node is first
instantiated with a DEF statement. This is an instance of the node. Now
assume that other nodes are specified with a USE statement to the above
DEF'd node. Paragraph 4.4.3 clearly states that the node is not to be
copied. Instead it is inserted multiple times into the scene graph.
Therefore, there is clearly only one 'instance'.


Now four other paragraphs (22.4.1, 22.4.2, 22.4.3 and 23.4.1) all use the
expression 'multiple instances' when referring to DEF/USE semantics. This is
clearly incorrect. The one instance is merely 'referenced' multiple times.


The three sensor nodes referred to above are all quoted as using the union
of their boxes. All three nodes have 'centre' and 'size' fields that define
the box within which to sense. All three are affected by the hierarchical
transformations of their parents.


For each of the references to a given node (assuming that no other parts of
the scene graph modify the 'size' and 'centre' fields during the traversal)
the size and location of the box, in the local coordinate system, will be
unchanged.


Now, consider the process of traversing a scene graph with DEF/USE nodes.
The instance of the node (with the DEF) will be traversed first. The
parental transformations will be applied to the box to convert the
coordinates to world coordinates (or this could be considered in reverse
whereby the world coordinates are converted to the local coordinates) and
perform the appropriate sensing. When the next reference is encountered
(i.e. the first USE) the same instance will be traversed again. However, it
is likely to have different parental transformations and so result in a box
in a different location and perhaps with a different size. Similarly for any
further USE reference.


So each traverse of the one instance is handled in an identical manner,
generating events as appropriate. To say that they use the union is
technically incorrect. The union is never generated. To the viewer of the
rendered scene it might appear to be a union. But it is not so. Events are
not based on a union. They are based on multiple traverses through the one
instance.


Now, consider the case where multiple references have the same parental
transformations. The box size and locations will be identical in each case.
Each traverse will generate the same events cycle, resulting in multiple
identical events from the same instance, being sent along the same routes,
except for one point. The isActive state will be set / cleared by the first
traverse through the DEF'd node. Subsequent traverses through any USE node
will therefore not generate any new events (assuming that the viewer has not
altered position during the interval between the traverses).


The specification refers to the results being undefined for overlapping
bounding boxes. Yet we can see that the results are predictable on the basis
of multiple traverses, albeit that there is no simple rule defining what the
results are. They will vary on a case by case basis, being dependent on the
viewer position relative to each of the multiple references and the isActive
status at the start of the scene graph traversal.


Roy Walmsley

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141229/b71dcff7/attachment.html>

From roy.walmsley at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec 29 05:45:57 2014
From: roy.walmsley at ntlworld.com (Roy Walmsley)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:45:57 -0000
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Specifications V3.3 : Comment on MFImage field.
Message-ID: <002e01d0236d$c64b1080$52e13180$@ntlworld.com>

Hello all.

 

I have noted that ISO/IEC IS 19775-1:2013 includes an MFImage field.
However, ISO/IEC IS 19776-1 DIS, for XML encoding, does not. ISO/IEC IS
19776-2 DIS, for classic VRML encoding, does have the field. ISO/IEC IS
19776-3 DIS, for binary encoding, also has the field, except that it is
missing from Table 5.1 in the Topics section 5.1.1.

 

The field is listed in the DTD for version 3.3.

 

Roy Walmsley

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141229/ffe6157c/attachment.html>

From highaspirations at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 29 07:13:18 2014
From: highaspirations at hotmail.com (doug sanden)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 08:13:18 -0700
Subject: [X3D-Public] Comment on ISO/IEC IS 19775-1:2013 - DEF/USE
In-Reply-To: <002901d0236b$c9c6dbb0$5d549310$@ntlworld.com>
References: <002901d0236b$c9c6dbb0$5d549310$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BAY181-W23ABC4D83B03132368A1C6B6510@phx.gbl>


>
> Hello all.
> This, my first posting here, is a comment on the DEF/USE syntax within
> the X3D specification. It is about the terminology used.
> Paragraph 3.1.38 defines an ?instance? as a node created by the
> instantiation process. So, consider the case where a node is first
> instantiated with a DEF statement. This is an instance of the node. Now
> assume that other nodes are specified with a USE statement to the above
> DEF?d node. Paragraph 4.4.3 clearly states that the node is not to be
> copied. Instead it is inserted multiple times into the scene graph.
> Therefore, there is clearly only one ?instance?.
> Now four other paragraphs (22.4.1, 22.4.2, 22.4.3 and 23.4.1) all use
> the expression ?multiple instances? when referring to DEF/USE
> semantics. This is clearly incorrect. The one instance is merely
> ?referenced? multiple times.
> The three sensor nodes referred to above are all quoted as using the
> union of their boxes. All three nodes have ?centre? and ?size? fields
> that define the box within which to sense. All three are affected by
> the hierarchical transformations of their parents.
> For each of the references to a given node (assuming that no other
> parts of the scene graph modify the ?size? and ?centre? fields during
> the traversal) the size and location of the box, in the local
> coordinate system, will be unchanged.
> Now, consider the process of traversing a scene graph with DEF/USE
> nodes. The instance of the node (with the DEF) will be traversed first.
> The parental transformations will be applied to the box to convert the
> coordinates to world coordinates (or this could be considered in
> reverse whereby the world coordinates are converted to the local
> coordinates) and perform the appropriate sensing. When the next
> reference is encountered (i.e. the first USE) the same instance will be
> traversed again. However, it is likely to have different parental
> transformations and so result in a box in a different location and
> perhaps with a different size. Similarly for any further USE reference.
> So each traverse of the one instance is handled in an identical manner,
> generating events as appropriate. To say that they use the union is
> technically incorrect. The union is never generated. To the viewer of
> the rendered scene it might appear to be a union. But it is not so.
> Events are not based on a union. They are based on multiple traverses
> through the one instance.
> Now, consider the case where multiple references have the same parental
> transformations. The box size and locations will be identical in each
> case. Each traverse will generate the same events cycle, resulting in
> multiple identical events from the same instance, being sent along the
> same routes, except for one point. The isActive state will be set /
> cleared by the first traverse through the DEF?d node. Subsequent
> traverses through any USE node will therefore not generate any new
> events (assuming that the viewer has not altered position during the
> interval between the traverses).
> The specification refers to the results being undefined for overlapping
> bounding boxes. Yet we can see that the results are predictable on the
> basis of multiple traverses, albeit that there is no simple rule
> defining what the results are. They will vary on a case by case basis,
> being dependent on the viewer position relative to each of the multiple
> references and the isActive status at the start of the scene graph
> traversal.
> Roy Walmsley
>
Roy,
Your analysis seems to jive with what I know so far, as a member of the general public who does some opensource programming to comply with the specs. Except you are much more precise in your reasoning. web3d.org community could use your talents, perhaps first to clean up its specs, where it has been using 'results are undefined if ..' a little too liberally.?
-Doug
more..
I thought by 'union' they were using a cute word to help summarize, but I always thought of it more like the union of mars, earth and venus - not 3 scrunched together or expanded to fill the space between, rather 3 working separately but on the same cause, and since there's only one avatar or pointing sensor which can only be in one place at a time (and all this would break for multi-avatar or multi-touch), it has the effect of working like a union-of-purpose, not spatial union.
Some have worked on the multi-touch issue, doing prototypes and writing papers, but it hasn't got into the specs. That's something that needs work.
more..
DEF vs USE is for parsing, and once parsed into a scenegraph there's no record of which reference was the def (vs use)., but I gather you were just trying to say something like "3 references A,B,C where A is traversed first" ?we could use clearer terminology for talking about different references - perhaps you can come up with some better terminology for us.





 		 	   		  

From michalis.kambi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 12:37:00 2014
From: michalis.kambi at gmail.com (Michalis Kamburelis)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 21:37:00 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] Announcement: view3dscene 3.15.0 - Spine,
	and many other improvements
Message-ID: <54A30CEC.6030109@gmail.com>

Hi,

New version of view3dscene, an open-source VRML/X3D browser developed
with our Castle Game Engine, is available on

  http://castle-engine.sourceforge.net/view3dscene.php

New features include

* Support for Spine 2D animations. Spine ( http://esotericsoftware.com/
) is a very nice program for creating 2D animations. The Spine models
are loaded by converting them to X3D graph, so you can view them, or
save back to X3D in classic or XML encoding.

* New shiny 3D Text implementation (fast and portable to Android).

* Many new X3D extensions, like NavigationInfo.blendingSort.

* The underlying Castle Game Engine got also various improvements, like
a build tool, for easily compiling and packaging our programs on all
platforms (including Android):
https://sourceforge.net/p/castle-engine/wiki/Build%20tool/ .

See http://castle-engine.sourceforge.net/news.php?id=2014-12-30 for full
release announcements.

Have fun!
Michalis


From Leonard.Daly at realism.com  Tue Dec 30 14:52:01 2014
From: Leonard.Daly at realism.com (Leonard Daly)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:52:01 -0800
Subject: [X3D-Public] Comment on ISO/IEC IS 19775-1:2013 - DEF/USE
In-Reply-To: <BAY181-W23ABC4D83B03132368A1C6B6510@phx.gbl>
References: <002901d0236b$c9c6dbb0$5d549310$@ntlworld.com>
	<BAY181-W23ABC4D83B03132368A1C6B6510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <54A32C91.8040708@realism.com>

The use of 'instance' seems a bit overloaded and should be cleaned up. 
Most of the time (at least in conversation), it is shorthand for 
'reference another instance'. This is not the right thing to do for text.

WRT the sensor nodes. The VRML documents and an early version of the 
spec (early 2000's) was unclear on how this worked. The use of 'union' 
for non-overlapping sensed regions of space refer to the spatial union 
of the covered areas.

The use of the term 'undefined' means the specification does not define 
what should be returned or made available to the X3D developer. It is 
not meant in a mathematical or software sense where 'undefined' has a 
different meaning. The specification allows a browser to determine which 
referenced copy is identified.

Final note: When an event is triggered, time stops within the X3D 
browser until the event cascade is completely processed. It is 
completely processed when there are no new events generated from that 
cascade or (2) any new event is a loop. In the case of (2), the 
browser's event loop breaking mechanism will step in and terminate that 
event. I bring this up so that people understand that there is no motion 
of the viewer during a traversal of the scene graph. Multiple separate 
events can be generated from a single change in the environment. For 
example, if there are two active and independent ProximitySensor nodes 
covering the same physical space, motion within that spatial region will 
generate two separate event cascades that both must terminate before any 
other change to the environment can occur.


Leonard Daly


>> Hello all.
>> This, my first posting here, is a comment on the DEF/USE syntax within
>> the X3D specification. It is about the terminology used.
>> Paragraph 3.1.38 defines an ?instance? as a node created by the
>> instantiation process. So, consider the case where a node is first
>> instantiated with a DEF statement. This is an instance of the node. Now
>> assume that other nodes are specified with a USE statement to the above
>> DEF?d node. Paragraph 4.4.3 clearly states that the node is not to be
>> copied. Instead it is inserted multiple times into the scene graph.
>> Therefore, there is clearly only one ?instance?.
>> Now four other paragraphs (22.4.1, 22.4.2, 22.4.3 and 23.4.1) all use
>> the expression ?multiple instances? when referring to DEF/USE
>> semantics. This is clearly incorrect. The one instance is merely
>> ?referenced? multiple times.
>> The three sensor nodes referred to above are all quoted as using the
>> union of their boxes. All three nodes have ?centre? and ?size? fields
>> that define the box within which to sense. All three are affected by
>> the hierarchical transformations of their parents.
>> For each of the references to a given node (assuming that no other
>> parts of the scene graph modify the ?size? and ?centre? fields during
>> the traversal) the size and location of the box, in the local
>> coordinate system, will be unchanged.
>> Now, consider the process of traversing a scene graph with DEF/USE
>> nodes. The instance of the node (with the DEF) will be traversed first.
>> The parental transformations will be applied to the box to convert the
>> coordinates to world coordinates (or this could be considered in
>> reverse whereby the world coordinates are converted to the local
>> coordinates) and perform the appropriate sensing. When the next
>> reference is encountered (i.e. the first USE) the same instance will be
>> traversed again. However, it is likely to have different parental
>> transformations and so result in a box in a different location and
>> perhaps with a different size. Similarly for any further USE reference.
>> So each traverse of the one instance is handled in an identical manner,
>> generating events as appropriate. To say that they use the union is
>> technically incorrect. The union is never generated. To the viewer of
>> the rendered scene it might appear to be a union. But it is not so.
>> Events are not based on a union. They are based on multiple traverses
>> through the one instance.
>> Now, consider the case where multiple references have the same parental
>> transformations. The box size and locations will be identical in each
>> case. Each traverse will generate the same events cycle, resulting in
>> multiple identical events from the same instance, being sent along the
>> same routes, except for one point. The isActive state will be set /
>> cleared by the first traverse through the DEF?d node. Subsequent
>> traverses through any USE node will therefore not generate any new
>> events (assuming that the viewer has not altered position during the
>> interval between the traverses).
>> The specification refers to the results being undefined for overlapping
>> bounding boxes. Yet we can see that the results are predictable on the
>> basis of multiple traverses, albeit that there is no simple rule
>> defining what the results are. They will vary on a case by case basis,
>> being dependent on the viewer position relative to each of the multiple
>> references and the isActive status at the start of the scene graph
>> traversal.
>> Roy Walmsley
>>
> Roy,
> Your analysis seems to jive with what I know so far, as a member of the general public who does some opensource programming to comply with the specs. Except you are much more precise in your reasoning. web3d.org community could use your talents, perhaps first to clean up its specs, where it has been using 'results are undefined if ..' a little too liberally.
> -Doug
> more..
> I thought by 'union' they were using a cute word to help summarize, but I always thought of it more like the union of mars, earth and venus - not 3 scrunched together or expanded to fill the space between, rather 3 working separately but on the same cause, and since there's only one avatar or pointing sensor which can only be in one place at a time (and all this would break for multi-avatar or multi-touch), it has the effect of working like a union-of-purpose, not spatial union.
> Some have worked on the multi-touch issue, doing prototypes and writing papers, but it hasn't got into the specs. That's something that needs work.
> more..
> DEF vs USE is for parsing, and once parsed into a scenegraph there's no record of which reference was the def (vs use)., but I gather you were just trying to say something like "3 references A,B,C where A is traversed first"  we could use clearer terminology for talking about different references - perhaps you can come up with some better terminology for us.
>
>
>
>
>
>   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> X3D-Public mailing list
> X3D-Public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>


-- 
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20141230/8fd0fdcc/attachment.html>

From michalis.kambi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 03:19:32 2014
From: michalis.kambi at gmail.com (Michalis Kamburelis)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 12:19:32 +0100
Subject: [X3D-Public] X3D Specifications V3.3 : Comment on MFImage field.
In-Reply-To: <002e01d0236d$c64b1080$52e13180$@ntlworld.com>
References: <002e01d0236d$c64b1080$52e13180$@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAKzBGZNidisFURy+gyrFoDZL59MpQo-vxaLM4TAJaN-=R7Arcw@mail.gmail.com>

For what it's worth, MFImage field is not used by *any* node in the
official X3D specification, at least last time I checked (X3D 3.2). In
theory some Script or PROTO/EXTERNPROTO or a shader node (like
ComposedShader) could use it, but I have not seen any example of it
yet...

This does not change the fact that encoding specifications should of
course be fixed to be consistent :)

I'm just mentioning that I would not miss the MFImage field, even if
it got removed/deprecated in future X3D version. Actually the
corresponding SFImage could be removed/deprecated too, I think, as
normal URL using "data URI scheme" is universally supported and seems
much more useful (allows to embed any data in the same way, like audio
or video or even 3d models, and allows compression).

Regards,
Michalis